Hello and welcome to another episode of Sutton United Talk Time on Podcast, where I’m joined by returning guest Carl for a straight-talking debrief on Sutton United, the mood around the VBS, and what it will actually take to turn performances into points. From line up reactions to leadership and mindset, this one leans into honesty, not hype.
Mike Dowling
00:06 - 00:20
Excellent, right. Hello and welcome to another episode of Sust United Talk Time on podcast. It's the Sutton podcast and I'm your host Mike. We're an association with Lucky Star Gin and with me today we have Carl returning.
Mike Dowling
00:21 - 00:33
So thank you to him and I thank you to everyone for returning, listening as well and any new listeners, hello. We love hearing from you. Join the conversations. Tag me on social media at Sutton Podcasts.
Mike Dowling
00:33 - 00:41
Let me know what you think of the podcast. Let me know what you think in general. I can't do much about most situations, but you can let me know anyway. If it gets you off your chest, that's great.
Mike Dowling
00:42 - 00:55
And big shout out to, obviously, regular listeners who do that all the time. Carl, how are you since you've last been on? I know I spoke to you yesterday, but how are you since you've last been on? And do you want to tell everyone why we're recording a bit late today?
Mike Dowling
00:55 - 00:57
Because you had a prior appointment.
Carl
00:58 - 01:05
Yeah, no, I'm good. I'm good. It's been good since the last podcast. Eating to get back on, actually, if I'm honest with you, Michael.
Carl
01:05 - 01:24
Enjoyed it. Enjoyed the debut. Had some technical difficulties, which I've solved, so there should be no technical difficulties or dropping out. And we're recording later because I wanted to see another team of mine get absolutely battered by their local rivals.
Mike Dowling
01:26 - 01:27
How'd that go? Was it fun?
Carl
01:27 - 01:33
It wasn't. It wasn't good viewing, Mike. We should have done this at half past four, mate. Yeah, absolutely.
Carl
01:33 - 01:33
It was the whole
Mike Dowling
01:33 - 01:38
thing. It just sort of went. Yeah. Anyway, that's a different United and they
Carl
01:38 - 01:38
look
Mike Dowling
01:38 - 01:50
worse than us. I don't know if you remember or if you saw it. I did set you a little bit of a question for knowing me, knowing you. I'll just tell you now, because obviously you're looking around furiously.
Mike Dowling
01:51 - 01:59
Who in your life influenced your support for Sutton United and the most or why. So I'm just going to delay the jingle and you've got a few seconds to think about that.
Speaker 3
02:01 - 02:04
I mean you could literally see you going
Carl
02:14 - 02:40
Yeah, well, my uncle used to live on Gander Green Lane until he ventured over to New Zealand. And I used to stay with him at the weekends, and it was his local club. But more recently, like I said, I've mentioned to you a couple of times, I've come down with a mate of mine who had some business season tickets that was through his business. And then, yeah, just grew from there.
Mike Dowling
02:41 - 02:44
Excellent, lovely. And which player made you quit coming back?
Carl
02:46 - 02:47
Which player kept me coming back?
Mike Dowling
02:47 - 02:50
Yeah, which was the ones you were like, oh, I'm looking forward to see
Carl
02:50 - 02:51
so-and-so?
Mike Dowling
02:54 - 02:55
Don't say Eastie in the bar or something like that.
Carl
02:55 - 03:01
No, no, you know what? It was Omar Bugail, actually. I loved seeing him throw his weight around.
Mike Dowling
03:01 - 03:02
Yeah,
Carl
03:02 - 03:35
absolutely. Yeah, him, Butes, the And to be fair, I missed him off actually, Kobe Rowe. Kobe Rowe was another one. You know, he was third, fourth, fifth choice.
Carl
03:35 - 03:40
But every time he came into the side, he'd done a shift, scored some important goals as well. Yeah, I think
Mike Dowling
03:40 - 03:48
I've got a little video somewhere where he scored three goals in a game, in three separate games, all in different kits. And I'm like, I don't know. Yeah,
Carl
03:48 - 03:53
because he scored the equalisers on the anniversary game. I think that was the third one, I
Mike Dowling
03:53 - 03:59
think. Yeah, so three different kits and he scored three goals in a row. Kobe Rowe. Anyway, club news.
Mike Dowling
03:59 - 04:07
He won number four. He did. Ladies team won today, 3-2. They got a late winner.
Mike Dowling
04:07 - 04:18
They were 2-0 up and they got pegged back to 2-2. That sounds familiar. We did the pegging back, but hey, we didn't do the finishing. But yeah, they won 3-2, so congrats to them.
Mike Dowling
04:21 - 04:37
So let's go for it. Ahead of the game, What were you expecting and what did you think when the sort of lineup came out? Was there any sort of omissions for you or someone you were surprised to be in the side? Um,
Carl
04:39 - 05:36
so going into the game, um, I felt that this should have been the start of four or five games that we should be winning, you know, after the, the tough six, um, I think Boreham Woods should have been the start of it really, but maybe with the weeks, no game in the week, four weeks of training and rest and rehabilitation, et cetera, I thought this should have been a start of Tamworth, Brackley, Boston, winnable games to get us back up into the top half of the table, get rid of the, stay well clear of the relegation zone. And when the starting lineups came up, nothing the only real disappointment is is the lone lone player yeah i don't know is it booting no i thought he um he played He's probably one of the better players for the games I've seen him in.
Carl
05:36 - 06:08
So I was surprised. I know Vinny was suspended and he's come in for Lee and Vincent and he's done well when he came in, but I felt that maybe Vinny could have got in as the first centre-off in place of Prudy if he needed his rest. But yeah, he was probably one of the guys I felt should have been in the sides. Um, and then, yeah, no, I know they've got injuries to the central midfielders of three were the only three they could have picked from, I suppose.
Carl
06:08 - 06:12
But, but no, uh, no one really
Mike Dowling
06:13 - 06:13
nothing dramatic.
Carl
06:14 - 06:14
No, not
Mike Dowling
06:14 - 06:25
really. I mean, obviously I don't know anything, but the booting thing may be because players that we're going to play on Tuesday, some of them have to play the following week, so
Carl
06:25 - 06:26
it may
Mike Dowling
06:26 - 06:29
be holding him back to say, Rob, we're going to get him on Saturday.
Carl
06:29 - 06:43
Which is unfair, really, because I think, you know, the National League Cup is not really the forefront. It's almost like the League Cup for the Premier League size, isn't it? It's not really the forefront. Although we want to compete, we did well last year to get to the final and stuff.
Carl
06:44 - 06:49
The league is where we need to focus on at the start of the season anyway, you know?
Mike Dowling
06:49 - 07:19
Yeah. So coming into the match, do you Do you feel that, although a lot of people have been, myself included, saying that, okay, it's a tough August, it's an awful August, we're playing some of the top teams, we knew when the fixtures came out, nothing really surprised us about that, but do we think that a little bit of confidence, psychologically, they were... they were struggling before the game?
Mike Dowling
07:19 - 07:27
Or do you kind of think, well, they're brave enough and big boys enough to know that, okay, they're gone, this is the next match in front of us. Or do you think there's a bit of a hangover?
Carl
07:31 - 08:25
I do think they see the stats, they see the tables, you know, they're working all week, they're they're shown videos, tapes or whatever throughout the weeks, you know, in a team meeting, I'm guessing so that they know where they're at. So I do think it is a confidence issue. And I spoke to, um, JT or Junior Eccleston after the game and I mentioned that they don't need the game on Tuesday really and someone who was Junior Eccleston because I think there was a bloke standing with him and he basically said, oh you have to get there when it's confidence, confidence into the next league game and it is, it is confidence but I think a lot of it is It plays on, they're seeing it and you know, they're seeing the reaction from the fans and it does carry on to the next game, you know,
Carl
08:25 - 08:31
especially with the Boreham Woods. you know, from where they were to what it happened. Yeah, the
Mike Dowling
08:32 - 08:45
confidence knocking onto the next game for the National League Cup, the worry on that is Brighton have got a really good academy. And if they're relying on that to boost their confidence, then it could be another Fulham situation.
Carl
08:45 - 08:45
I'm not
Mike Dowling
08:45 - 09:04
saying it will be, but it could be more damage. But we started the match. We all know what went on in the match, but again, early penalty. Not quite as early as some of the ones we've had so far this season, but very early penalty.
Mike Dowling
09:04 - 09:19
I think that's the fifth of the season we've given away. How do you feel like, A, the penalty, and then, I can't remember how long after, but not that long after, I think it was within the first 20 minutes, two goals, both goals,
Carl
09:21 - 09:21
from
Mike Dowling
09:21 - 09:52
the throw on. So how difficult, as a player, would you have said, Christ, hang on, we've come into this game on a bad run, we're now finding ourselves 2-0 down on a game that we should be winning. And mistakes, they're individual mistakes, so I'm not going to call out anyone and blame them, but it's an individual mistake that led to Jack having no choice on the penalty, individual mistakes in the throw-on. But yeah how do you kind of
Carl
09:52 - 09:53
get
Mike Dowling
09:53 - 09:57
over these i know everyone's like oh you just have to live in the moment but that's really difficult
Carl
09:58 - 10:17
i think The easy answer is time. Time will tell. I was talking to you yesterday, actually, saying that there was four worse teams in the league than Sutton United. As it stands now, there isn't, because we're in the bottom four.
Carl
10:17 - 10:32
But we've played the tougher fixtures at this present time. So time will tell. Time will pick up. Sometimes in this game, it's about rubber to green, and they're just not getting the rubber to green.
Carl
10:32 - 10:51
The header is short. It's an easy decision for a penalty, but you forget that and then move on. I don't think the penalty or the early goal conceded contributes to the long throw and not being defended well, because that's 101. You do your job.
Carl
10:52 - 10:54
But then you look at yourself, you're 2-0 down with 20 minutes to go. 20
Mike Dowling
10:55 - 10:56
minutes gone.
Carl
10:56 - 11:03
Yeah, sorry, 20 minutes gone. There's plenty of time left in the game to get back in. And they did, you know? Yeah,
Mike Dowling
11:04 - 11:16
I have to say, at one point, I was around near you, but I'm not sure if I said it to you. I was like, well, you know what, we can't come back if we don't go behind. So it's like, come on, positive, positive. Yeah.
Mike Dowling
11:16 - 11:20
And someone did very gently tell me to F off. It
Carl
11:21 - 11:23
wasn't me. It wasn't me. No, it wasn't you. It wasn't you, absolutely.
Mike Dowling
11:26 - 11:45
simps stepped up and got us a goal stepped up again got us another goal yeah come back to two two so i was very confidently bouncing around and being really really happy feeling quite smug i'm gonna be honest i was feeling this is great i should have recorded myself saying that 40 seconds later
Carl
11:45 - 11:47
maybe even maybe even less than that mate
Mike Dowling
11:47 - 12:00
yeah i mean that that that is a collective brain fart is the ball goes out, the ball goes anywhere. You just have those five minutes to kind of
Carl
12:01 - 12:01
settle
Mike Dowling
12:01 - 12:01
down,
Carl
12:02 - 12:02
not,
Mike Dowling
12:03 - 12:03
not...
Carl
12:03 - 12:31
They did it last year though, Mike, didn't they, against Forest Green, but you know, they got the equaliser in the 88th minute or whatever. And then it was two minutes, maybe, maybe a little bit longer than, you know, obviously they're going for the winner at home, et cetera, you know, but you sort of, if you're 2-0 down, you get to 2-2, you wouldn't, you know, Well, let's settle down now, boys. Let's play some football. And to be fair, from the moment it kicked off to that moment at 2-2, they were the better team.
Carl
12:31 - 12:43
They were playing a better football. Like you said, the two goals that Tamworth scored were from a penalty and a long throw in from mistakes or whatever. So they weren't a better team. They just needed to calm down, nil-nil.
Mike Dowling
12:44 - 12:56
Yeah, especially as, like you said, yeah, you've just come back. You're in the ascendancy. You've got the momentum. there was a whole second half to go then you had a lot of time you didn't have to get that going at three two you could
Carl
12:56 - 12:56
have
Mike Dowling
12:56 - 13:18
just gone right we'll go in at two two we'll refresh we'll find out what's going on and we'll sort it um i mean you mentioned this happened a few times last year happened a few times a year before as well but this is a different side this is a different It should be a different mentality, but how are these things still sticking from previous sides and still going on?
Carl
13:19 - 13:49
So the easy answer for last year's one is they're just a young team. Maybe a bit of inexperience, a bit of adrenaline, especially if Louis Simba gets both goals. He wants his hat trick maybe, you know, not saying that that's what he's thinking of, The mistakes from the two seasons ago were the season, I don't know, it's a different system, so you can't be the same reasons, but the ones, the tour three occasions last year, it's just because it's just youth.
Carl
13:50 - 14:06
They're young, their adrenaline courses through, you get a bit more energy in the legs, so you sprint that extra five yards quicker, and then you're passed in an instant, really. It's the confidence, it's that.
Mike Dowling
14:07 - 14:13
And I know Steve said many times, Meanie said many times, they want the players to play with freedom and
Carl
14:13 - 14:13
not
Mike Dowling
14:13 - 14:21
worry about making mistakes, because that's when their best football come. But you cannot help it as a human being to be, things are not going well.
Carl
14:22 - 14:22
I don't
Mike Dowling
14:22 - 14:38
want to be the one that makes the mistake. Yeah. Because it just happens. I mean, second half, before we talk about what Steve said, but second half, we say you thought we had a better team in that first half.
Mike Dowling
14:38 - 14:41
Second half, absolutely all over my thought. I thought
Carl
14:41 - 14:41
there was
Mike Dowling
14:41 - 14:47
very few chances for them. We grazed the crossbar, I think at least once.
Carl
14:47 - 14:48
hit the post, didn't
Mike Dowling
14:48 - 14:59
we? Yeah, yeah. So we had lots and lots and lots of chances, and it just couldn't go in. Is that something that we're doing wrong?
Mike Dowling
14:59 - 15:08
Or is that the luck you were talking about earlier, which is you can't define it, you can't train it, you can't improve it. What can we do with this luck?
Carl
15:13 - 15:23
I don't know. It's the rub of the green, I suppose. It is luck. Someone said to me a long time ago that you make your own luck in life sometimes.
Carl
15:23 - 16:04
But there was a moment where I think, was it Harris or Sid you had a swap at the board and it felt too simple on his right foot. He had a swap at the ball and then it just falls to their player. And I mentioned it in the bar afterwards to a few people, especially to Meany when we was having a conversation, it's like, we try so hard to create these chances and it always seems to fall to their players or look at the solid hole one where um i can't remember who who headed it onto their own post when we would you know you know yeah tyler that's it yeah so um it falls to their player they get their luck but when it's in our box it just seems to end up in the back of the
Carl
16:04 - 16:21
net doesn't matter what back five or simo does it just ends up in the back of the net so it's just that it's a numbers game i suppose the more you create the more more likely you you're gonna get that goal but it just didn't No. And it's been like
Mike Dowling
16:21 - 16:41
that for a little while. I mean, I've said for a while, even though I said it's got nothing to do with the same players and everything, but previous seasons, we seem to work so hard to create the chances, not take them. When we do take them, we go, right, we got a goal. And then they just kind of managed to just get a big toe on it and score out of nothing.
Mike Dowling
16:41 - 16:52
And you're like, when are we going to get that? When is that going to happen to us? I'm pretty sure every club in the whole world would say the same thing. I really do feel that we are not getting enough.
Mike Dowling
16:52 - 16:57
So we might need to do some exorcisms or some... Sacrifices
Carl
16:57 - 16:59
to the gods. I don't, I don't,
Mike Dowling
17:00 - 17:02
I don't know. Maybe
Carl
17:02 - 17:03
cut the corner
Mike Dowling
17:03 - 17:03
flag up.
Carl
17:04 - 17:07
Yeah. Yeah. Sacrifice, sacrifice a corner flag.
Mike Dowling
17:07 - 17:21
Yeah. But is it a, I mean, I spoke to Woody in the hospitality head of things. He was great by the way. I did mention the conversation where we were all getting a little bit hydrated after one of the other games.
Mike Dowling
17:21 - 17:21
So
Carl
17:22 - 17:22
I'm not sure
Mike Dowling
17:22 - 17:36
about. I'm not sure if you remember this conversation, he panicked a little bit. But are we missing leaders on the pitch again? So when he was in the middle of the pitch, doing the talking, shouting, we've got Aaron, who does that.
Mike Dowling
17:38 - 17:47
Harry does that. We've got leaders on the pitch, but is it, again, people are not wanting to give each other instructions or sound like they're moaning?
Carl
17:47 - 18:02
No, no. To be fair, I think that Simo's come more out of his shell this year. He's shouting and talking to his backline a lot more. He spent half his time on the halfway line yesterday, shouting and hollering and directing traffic.
Carl
18:02 - 18:31
So I don't think it's about leaders. I just think it It's about knowing your role, I suppose, on the pitch, knowing what your responsibilities are and just making sure that you do the simple things. I remember Steve shouting, I think we've got to go, it might have even been Boren Wood or whatever, and he turned around and he shouted to the bench, this game is easy. I think we were master scored or create some try and he just said he just turned to the bench and he just the game is easy.
Carl
18:32 - 18:44
Yeah. And it is it's it becomes harder when you try to overcomplicate things. So I don't think it's about leadership on the on the pitch. I think leadership needs to be within a dressing room.
Carl
18:45 - 18:59
I think they've got that with the likes of Woody and Fipsy and Aaron and, you know, those more experienced National League players, you know, so I'm not 100% sure that transitions to the pitch as such.
Mike Dowling
19:00 - 19:26
Yeah, I mean, it is a dolphin because every game, apart from the first green one where we were well beaten, but When you've got one player on more than our entire midfield, you've got to go, OK, well, there's going to be a difference there. But apart from that, every game has been one goal here or there. We're not far away. We're not like getting battered every week.
Mike Dowling
19:26 - 19:33
We're losing, but we're not getting battered. And pretty much every game we're coming away from it going, we should have won that. We should have won that.
Carl
19:34 - 19:51
Yeah, the York game at the, you know, we listened to it. We didn't actually watch it in the end, some birthday party or something stupid like that. But we've watched every game on the zone when it's been away. So the Rochdale game should have won it, had more better chances than them.
Carl
19:51 - 20:14
They got lucky with their goal. Boron Woods, 2-1 up at halftime, played the best first half of football that seen this season and then second half just come out as a different team. And then solid home wars, batted their goal for 90 minutes, nil-nil. And yeah, Forest Green was the only one that you could sit back and go, you know what, we were schooled.
Carl
20:16 - 20:22
left, right and center. Okay, yeah, the early penalty again doesn't help, but the other three goals were just... Yeah,
Mike Dowling
20:23 - 20:24
there's not a lot you can do with it.
Carl
20:24 - 20:24
I
Mike Dowling
20:24 - 20:45
mean, they kind of played how we want to play, straight in your face, getting the ball pressed early. But we've... I mean, what's more frustrating is I know people got carried away, including myself, And even though you're saying, oh, it's only preseason, it's only in your heart. You're like, whoa, we are looking good.
Mike Dowling
20:45 - 20:55
We are looking great here. Yeah, we had such a good preseason. And it just hasn't carried on. I mean, the York game, yeah, we could have said, oh, we should have come away with that.
Mike Dowling
20:55 - 21:11
But we got a draw at one of the title favourites. So even into that game, you're like, OK, we're doing good. But it just hasn't followed into the season, which I know a lot of people are going, yeah, see, told you it wouldn't. What is it about that mentality that suddenly switches?
Mike Dowling
21:11 - 21:23
I mean, I had a little message conversation with Nadas where he was being a little bit annoyed before the Ultra match that he hadn't scored yet. And I was like, but you scored loads in preseason. It's going to come. And he was like, that's preseason.
Mike Dowling
21:23 - 21:26
That's totally different. Doesn't even count. And I'm like, I'll decide what counts. Thank you.
Mike Dowling
21:29 - 21:35
What is the difference between a preseason and then not transferring that into the league?
Carl
21:38 - 22:05
I agree with Nader to an extent, because if you look at the first two preseason games, right, AFC Wimbledon and Wiccan Wanderers, there were two 45-minute teams. So you can't really take the results. Maybe the Wimbledon one you can take as more of a, that's how we want to be playing into the season than the Wiccan one. And then the other games were all against lower league opposition.
Carl
22:05 - 22:18
So it was just about getting minutes in the legs or whatever, finding your rhythm, targets, that sort of stuff. So I agree with him on that. But again, it's like confidence.
Speaker 3
22:18 - 22:19
You
Carl
22:19 - 22:37
have a good pre-season, you go into the opening game of the season with confidence. And it showed with the effort for the 2-2 at York. And then that carries on to the battering against Solihull that we just couldn't win the following week. And then And then you're into the forest green game.
Carl
22:37 - 23:04
And as soon as you get turned over that that's confidence gone. And you've got to rebuild it, you know, it's, it's harder to gain confidence than it is to lose it. So I think, because I was speaking to Brandon at the summer party launch. And I was talking to him about, you know, he could have got a hat trick at Churchill when he come on, you know, the two headers that he had, et cetera, et cetera.
Carl
23:04 - 23:10
And he was like, just finding my rhythm. Just getting minutes in the leg. I think it was his debut. I think he come on at the second half, it was his first game.
Carl
23:11 - 23:23
So he was just trying to find minutes in the legs and stuff. He was just trying to find his rhythm. So you can forgive that, but he's come up with a couple of cheeky goals. you know, and hopefully for Nader's that will come look at Will Davies last year.
Carl
23:23 - 23:30
I don't think he even got his first goal till mid-October, end of October. And then he's top goal scorer, isn't he? So it will come.
Mike Dowling
23:30 - 23:48
Yeah. I mean, there's Part of me obviously is like, still new players gelling in, Naders and Brandon need to kind of get their partnership sorted. Then the other side is kind of going, we're nearly quarter way of the season. Other teams have started to gel and everything a bit quicker than we are.
Mike Dowling
23:51 - 23:58
Is it the lack of goals? Or is it conceding the goals that is our biggest problem at the moment?
Carl
23:59 - 24:13
In your opinion, obviously. Conceding, yeah. You don't concede, you get points. So, okay, goals win you games, et cetera, is the saying, but if you don't concede, you're gonna get a point.
Carl
24:14 - 24:24
With 46 games, it's 46 points. That's more of an Arsenal outlook there. Just don't concede. Not Man
Mike Dowling
24:24 - 24:26
United under Ferguson score more than them.
Carl
24:26 - 24:39
Yeah. But so, yeah, I think not conceding is probably more of a concern. The amount of goals we concede is more of a concern than the amount we're not scoring. Because you score two against Boreham Wood, you concede four.
Carl
24:39 - 24:46
You score two against Tamworth yesterday, you concede three. So I don't think scoring the goals is the issue.
Mike Dowling
24:50 - 25:09
Steve was quite scathing, especially when you compare, not necessarily what he said, but how he said things compared to previous interviews. So normally he's very much like, yeah, it's a collective responsibility. But then he was basically saying, it's the fundamentals of football.
Carl
25:09 - 25:09
We've
Mike Dowling
25:10 - 25:20
worked on this all week. and they don't do it, what is going on. So like the throw on, they knew what was going to come, they've been practicing it, they prepared
Carl
25:20 - 25:20
for
Mike Dowling
25:21 - 25:33
it. And still got caught out. I mean, he's taken a little bit of criticism for the expression man up, but I emotional
Carl
25:34 - 25:34
in
Mike Dowling
25:34 - 25:42
the moment talking, you're not going to be thinking about, oh, how's that? Yeah, take that. Do you do you agree that that's a slight
Carl
25:42 - 25:43
change for
Mike Dowling
25:43 - 25:50
him where he's he's kind of almost reaching the end of his tether with with with them? Or do you think that I'm reading way too much into it?
Carl
25:51 - 25:58
I would say way too much into it. I think you are reading a little bit too much into it. I think. At the end of the day, Steve's only human.
Carl
25:59 - 26:21
So I compare it to my two young little rugrats. You know, you can tell them so many times to not jump on the sofa or stop running around, but they'll fall over. They'll bang their heads, you know, cause they'll keep on doing it, keep on doing it. So, and it's frustrating because you're telling them that they're going to hurt themselves.
Carl
26:22 - 26:52
So there may be a little bit of, losing his patience with it, you know, we're telling you guys week in week out gaming game out what the fundamentals are, we've given you all the information to go out there and be tooled up to do the job, etc. So maybe it's just a you know, a sort of final straw. He can't take all the blame, so he's gonna have to shed some of it. But I wouldn't say you're reading too much into it.
Carl
26:52 - 27:11
It was definitely, I personally haven't seen the whole interview. I've seen clippets, you know, throughout the day and stuff. But I would say it's definitely a different type of interview. And that comes off the back of the one last week against Orchard when someone just runs through the middle, you know.
Carl
27:12 - 27:17
So there is a bit of frustration. Maybe I haven't spoken to Steve. Of
Mike Dowling
27:17 - 27:27
course, I've not spoken. I just asked was he all right the other day, or like yesterday. I got a look, so I was like, okay. We won't chat now, Steve.
Mike Dowling
27:28 - 27:57
But yeah, I mean, I get where the noise is coming from. I get lots of people just straight away didn't like him and any opportunity they're going to jump on, it has been building in speed. One set of interesting comments were after the Ultracon match where he was saying that We're all trying our hardest, the players are trying their hardest, the staff are trying their hardest, everyone's trying their hardest. It's like, well, if our hardest isn't working, is it good enough?
Mike Dowling
27:59 - 28:07
Are you of the opinion that something needs to change or are you of the opinion, I think you said it earlier, is we just need time to pass by?
Carl
28:07 - 28:29
No, I personally don't think there needs to be any change. I think It will, it's coming. Just look at the Carlisle result. We were just as good as them.
Carl
28:30 - 28:46
Our goals were just as deserved as theirs. So if they can play at that consistent level, then they'll be fine. I don't think, I'm not a fan of the early trigger. You know, so I know York City have done it.
Carl
28:47 - 29:08
There was a sort of Hull Moors have done it. Yeah. So it may work out for them. But then on the flip side, I felt that if Matt Gray had been released maybe a month earlier, Steve may have had the time to keep, keep them up in the, in the two, you know, people have been a point I think crosses in the end.
Mike Dowling
29:08 - 29:36
So, um, I think people have been talking about the sliding doors moments of like the, the penalty at Colchester or at home to Colchester and the penalty, um, to Doncaster where If those two things hadn't happened, then we would have still been in the EFL. Things could be totally, totally different. I mean, I'm not a fan of the trigger at all. I'm going to be honest.
Mike Dowling
29:36 - 29:51
I'm like, no, you give the man the job, give him the chance to do the job. And yeah, I'm more of a case of it will be when they decide, this isn't, this isn't, I can't. Maybe, yeah, if we start really struggling, then you've got to look at it.
Carl
29:51 - 30:03
Yeah. If the football wasn't good, and you're getting battered week in, week out, then yeah, 100%, my answer would probably be, yeah, something needs to change. But it's one game. I think
Mike Dowling
30:03 - 30:10
his answer would be, Also, if we were talking about nine games and we've been battered in every single game, I think his answer would be very different
Carl
30:10 - 30:11
as well. Yeah,
Mike Dowling
30:11 - 30:20
of course. But is it that you're a relatively new fan as well, but is it that people's expectations are
Carl
30:20 - 30:20
too
Mike Dowling
30:20 - 30:29
high? Because obviously a lot of people joined us when we were in the EFL. And we've got a lot of new fans over the last couple of years. That's not a dismissing of new fans.
Mike Dowling
30:29 - 30:42
I love the new fans. But because they've only known us at that level or this level, is their expectation a little bit too high? Because generally, we've always played at the level below. Every football
Carl
30:42 - 31:15
fan's expectation is always going to be higher. You know, I think I'm a football fan, right? So I have in my main team and I would say I'm a supporter and a follower and a fan of Sutton United over the last five seasons. So I see it maybe with a different vision or a different perspective than the guys that have been going for 15, 20, 30 years, etc. But every fan has the right to have an expectation of being in the Football League.
Carl
31:16 - 31:38
But for me, my answer is it took the club 120 years to get into the Football League. It's not going to take two or three seasons. And I spoke to, I can't remember his name now, at the end of last season, was in the bar at the end of the game. Oh, this is, blah, blah, blah, et cetera.
Carl
31:38 - 32:03
And then you tried to put a spin on it, oh, we're finishing the top half, et cetera, which is fine. And I think he laughed it off, but I said to him that you've got to look at, once you've relegated, you've got to have a three-year project sustained because the team changed completely. to maintain your national league status. This year, we need to build on it, top off, maybe push for the playoffs, and then push for winning the league next year if you don't get promoted in a second.
Carl
32:03 - 32:30
So that's just my vision of it. But a fan can come in and go, you know what, we've won seven out of eight pre-seasons, we should be winning this league. So no, I don't think people who've got high expectations, I just think they need to, once they've got the reality that that expectation ain't gonna happen, don't just 180 and turn in the other direction.
Mike Dowling
32:30 - 33:00
Yeah, that's the little thing is I'm kind of like, hang on, you, I can't remember who it was, and I'm sorry, I'm not willing to dig anyone out, but prior to Ultraman, for example, that you had someone saying, no, I still back the manager, absolutely, blah, blah, blah, then after the Ultraman match, no, that's it, he's gotta go. And it's like, no, no, no, you can't just do it on the basis of one game. Now I spoke to Terry Bullivan very, very briefly yesterday and I said something, this is twice now I've said something to him, he's like oh I like that and I'm like oh okay.
Mike Dowling
33:00 - 33:43
So I sort of said the problem with football especially in the UK is every team is going to get to a point on the ladder where they lose more games than they win because that's the fact of relegation you're going to always reach a point where you're not you're not winning as many as you once were might be a few seasons after that you start losing those more games or you sit in mid table but you've all got a natural level So we're always going to be in a position where we're going to be up against it now for the next couple years. I know, even if we get promoted, I mean, I know, I did mock them with Gary and Tim saying, we hope to be in League One or the championship in the next 10, 15, whatever number of years.
Mike Dowling
33:43 - 33:56
It's like, okay, you can have your hope, but now you've written it down. That sounds like a manifesto promise. We're not going to be there because we just you haven't got the facilities. And it costs a lot of money.
Mike Dowling
33:56 - 34:25
But I mean, I have noticed that after yesterday, some people have now started to switch onto the players saying, hang on, what are they doing? Are they are they doing enough, which I find funny, harsh, because again, a lot of me young, and they read social media. But you know, in a word, How would you go into that changing room? You're not going to be allowed, but how would you go into that changing room and suddenly switch all the confidence around?
Carl
34:27 - 34:44
Believe, it's just one word. You've got to believe it. I said to AJ actually as he was walking up yesterday, I said to him, there are some talented players on there within the team. And I just have to believe in their abilities.
Carl
34:46 - 35:09
The managers picked him up and brought him into this division and this team for a reason. So they have to believe that, you know, you said earlier about the youth, they're fearless or whatever. There's that 16 year old kid in the Liverpool side who scored the winner a couple of weeks ago because he's fearless. He's not scared of making a mistake.
Carl
35:09 - 35:24
But the difference with that is he's got 10 other multi-millionaire internationals beyond him. We don't have that. So if one of them makes a mistake, it's going to jeopardize the other. They've just got to believe that they can do it.
Carl
35:24 - 35:42
Believe they can stick the ball in the back of the net. Believe they can clear a corner or a long throw in or whatever. So if I could go in there tomorrow and speak to the group, it would just be believe. And I'm not saying that Steve's not doing that, or Meanie's not doing that, or Kiwi's not doing that, you know.
Carl
35:42 - 35:43
But it's...
Mike Dowling
35:45 - 36:01
Yeah, it's hard because obviously, as soon as a mistake happens, and I know because I've done it, so I'm not saying people shouldn't do it. As soon as a mistake happens, it's that collective, ugh, around the ground. And that can't help. You're sitting there, and you know you've made a mistake.
Mike Dowling
36:03 - 36:08
When I spoke to Eastie on here before, I was like, oh, you know those things where you miss something and everyone's like, oh, come on, chin up, Eastie. He goes, oh, God, yeah.
Carl
36:08 - 36:09
It's
Mike Dowling
36:09 - 36:23
so irritating because you know you've done it wrong. Because I get why people do it. You know you've done something wrong and there's no one who can tell me I've had a good game if I know I've had a bad one and vice versa. But it's those little things of once you've done that, it's disappointing.
Mike Dowling
36:23 - 36:24
We've got to do the next time.
Carl
36:24 - 36:24
Come on,
Mike Dowling
36:25 - 36:26
come on, pick it up. Keep
Carl
36:26 - 36:30
going. I bet your bottom dollar that every single player today has not had a very good Sunday. No,
Mike Dowling
36:31 - 36:31
no.
Carl
36:32 - 36:42
So, you know, people might turn on the players and say, oh, it's our club and it's just a job to you, etc. But they'll be feeling it today. Yeah,
Mike Dowling
36:43 - 36:47
I have slightly, not hugely, but slightly different experience with some of the players because they don't
Carl
36:47 - 36:48
say hello and everything,
Mike Dowling
36:48 - 37:14
but when I've ever chatted to them, they're all not, none of them have given me the impression that they're just here to be like, go through the motions, which is slightly different to some of the players we had a couple seasons ago, who wouldn't kind of engage at all, this lot wanting to talk, wanting to chat with people and I mean, some of them are shyer than others, but they want to do well, you can tell. Anyway, let's move on. Let's talk about, we'll do Brighton.
Mike Dowling
37:17 - 37:27
So they are one of the best academies in the country. Great, marvellous. What's your thoughts? Never mind your thoughts on the National League Cup.
Mike Dowling
37:27 - 37:36
Everyone's expressed their own opinion on that, but we are playing the game. So what's your thoughts ahead of that game? How do you feel we should approach it? And I know you don't play the Prediction League, but give us a score prediction.
Carl
37:38 - 37:57
Score prediction, jeez. Put it down on the evening, mate. Expectation of the game is probably just It's going to be a tough one. I think a lot of the academy teams play, you can tell they're Premier League teams because they play a certain way.
Carl
37:57 - 38:06
Leeds United did it. They played pressing when they got the ball. They were confident and comfortable on the ball. So I'm guessing Brighton are going to probably be the same.
Carl
38:06 - 38:37
What am I expecting? If I'm honest with you, it's probably going to be another loss. But if I was, if I was to take any positives out of the game, it probably would be to minimize that loss to maybe a goal or two, you know, not like the full display, you know. But I would personally, if I was in Steve's position now, coaching wise, I would be setting up to allow them to have as much possession of the ball and then hit him.
Carl
38:38 - 38:46
Hit him with a counter attack. Yeah, okay, they might be young, they might be pacey, they might, you know. that again, they're younger than us. So they're going to be an experience.
Carl
38:46 - 39:01
We're going to have youth on their sides. So hit him, hit him on the counter attack, set up with the five, go with the actual five at the back and then let them play and then hit him on the counter attack. That's, that's probably what I would do. The score prediction.
Carl
39:04 - 39:06
Two one to them. Two one to them.
Mike Dowling
39:06 - 39:07
Okay.
Carl
39:08 - 39:11
Well, I'm hoping it's an unpopular choice probably, but
Mike Dowling
39:12 - 39:14
no, no one really cares about
Carl
39:14 - 39:22
his car. To be fair. I wouldn't say I don't care about the cup. I think cups are there to help with lead momentum and stuff.
Carl
39:22 - 39:34
But I just felt that this game has come at the wrong time where, where we are in the league. So, um, I think it would be a good, you know, financially it benefits the club like it did last year. But, um, just this fixture alone has just come at the wrong time.
Mike Dowling
39:35 - 39:48
Yeah, as soon as I said that, I thought, right, I know right now that Meanie is scathing and if Steve listens, he's scathing because they do care about the cup. Lots of people don't care about the cup. Let me do that. I'm going to go for a bullying performance.
Mike Dowling
39:48 - 39:56
I think we're going to get back to a little bit like, right, you know what, this is an under 21 side. They're not used to playing men's football. Let's get in them. Like you said, let them have the ball a little bit.
Mike Dowling
39:56 - 40:13
But as soon as they get into that danger zones, the bullying should start. And I'm going to go with a 3-1 win and Dylan to score first. So you probably do or don't know, but I've also put these things into Gemini AI to see what it thinks. Okay.
Mike Dowling
40:13 - 40:32
And amazingly, it's joint top of the Prediction League. And I say amazingly, because it went for a 1-0 win to us with Harry Buterman to score the first goal. Caribbean who left us two years ago. So, I'm like, how can this thing be top when it comes up with this kind of stuff?
Mike Dowling
40:32 - 40:33
There
Carl
40:33 - 40:37
is a chance for a window. So, if I can, I don't mind loaning this for a game or two.
Mike Dowling
40:37 - 40:40
I did go back when, yeah, he left us in
Carl
40:40 - 40:40
June 24
Mike Dowling
40:41 - 40:53
or whatever it was, and he went, oh, okay, then it changes to Nelson. And I'm like, I don't think he's even going to be playing, but okay, whatever, I'll put that down. But that's what it reckons. I'm looking further ahead to the early one next Saturday.
Mike Dowling
40:53 - 41:08
I'm not gonna know what to do with myself next week at all because it's on early so I can watch it properly and everyone else in the house is going out and they're out all day so like the football will finish and I'll be like what am I supposed to do now? I don't know
Carl
41:08 - 41:12
how to... Hopefully you can party and celebrate for three points.
Mike Dowling
41:12 - 41:29
I'm like, what do you feel about the following week? I mean, obviously, it's a week away, and we don't have a lot of detail on them yet. And it's a lot that happened in that week. But longer term, how do you feel about the away game early next week?
Carl
41:33 - 41:52
More positive than the Tuesday game. I think again it's another chance to to get back to winning ways. Brackley, I've not actually noticed many. I think the only result I really noticed recently is their 1-0 draw against Scunthorpe, where they scored a late equaliser, I believe.
Carl
41:52 - 41:57
So they're probably down in the table. You're probably going to tell me where they are.
Mike Dowling
41:57 - 41:58
13th,
Carl
41:58 - 41:59
so they're not down in the table
Mike Dowling
41:59 - 41:59
at
Carl
41:59 - 42:00
all,
Mike Dowling
42:00 - 42:00
especially
Carl
42:00 - 42:10
compared to us. So, but again, it's an away trip, so maybe a different type of atmosphere for the boys to play in.
Mike Dowling
42:11 - 42:17
Definitely. I mean, again, I know everyone's trying their hardest at home, but it is very different away. I know
Carl
42:17 - 42:18
I don't
Mike Dowling
42:18 - 42:25
go away, but because all the away fans are kind of stuck together, whereas at Gander Green Lane we all tend to
Carl
42:25 - 42:26
spread wherever we want.
Mike Dowling
42:27 - 42:33
Some people can go to their favorite spots. Some can't. I don't know if I've ever mentioned that before. But yeah, it will be a very different
Carl
42:33 - 42:34
atmosphere to come
Mike Dowling
42:34 - 42:34
out to.
Carl
42:35 - 43:03
So looking forward to... I personally might be watching this one actually, because I've got some game of my own to play on Saturday at one o'clock. But I think what I've seen of them away, apart from the Forest Green game, they're they're holding their own against a home opposition. So I think Brackley should be, should be three points.
Carl
43:03 - 43:18
I'll be, I'll be a bit surprised if we don't, and that's not having an over egged expectation on them to go and get three points, but I would say looking at it, maybe clean sheet and a win.
Mike Dowling
43:19 - 43:24
Okay. Cool. Right, we're gonna wrap up the episode. Thank you very much, Carl, for going solo.
Mike Dowling
43:25 - 43:37
We appreciate everyone's attention and feedback. Get involved in the Know Me, Know You segment. Who in your life has influenced your support for Southern United? Follow, like, share this episode at Southern Podcast on social medias.
Mike Dowling
43:37 - 43:45
Subscribe while you're there. Give us a little report and a nice thumbs up on YouTube, because we like it. Did the whole thumbs up thing. People not only listening, I actually did the thumbs up on the screen.
Mike Dowling
43:46 - 43:55
And always, thank you to Lucky Star Gin for being sponsors. Big thank you again, Carl, for flying solo. It's quite difficult. And thanks to everyone for listening.
Mike Dowling
43:55 - 43:59
Hope you've enjoyed this episode of Sutton Podcast. Take care and we'll catch up soon. Bye-bye.
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