In this episode of Sutton United Talk Time on Podcast — the Sutton Podcast, proudly in association with Lucky Star Gin — I sat down with Joe to talk about the rollercoaster of emotions that come with supporting Sutton United. From the lows that test our patience to the highs that make everything worthwhile, Joe brought his trademark honesty and humour to the conversation.
Mike Dowling
Hello and welcome to another episode of Sutton United Talk Time on podcast. It's a Sutton podcast in association with Lucky Star Gin. I'm your host, Mike. And if you're a regular listener, thank you very much.
Mike Dowling
I really am grateful for your time. If you are new here, please stay again and do another one. Joe's already shaking his head. I can't believe it.
Mike Dowling
Lucky Star Gin. And today I'm delighted to have Joe on here to roll his eyes, shake his head and all the rest of it. We love hearing from you. Join the conversation.
Mike Dowling
Give us your likes, shares, comments, and all the rest of it at Sutton Podcast on all socials. And thanks to everyone who does this on a regular basis, especially TikTok. I put one up the other day because I logged in and there's like 20, 30 likes. I did a little video and then they all started liking that.
Mike Dowling
And I was like, oh, here we go. We could be here forever doing this.
Joe
He's a big time. He's big time now.
Mike Dowling
Big time, I know. Joe, how are you?
Joe
I am brilliant. I am having a wonderful time. Well, apart from football. Never mind football.
Mike Dowling
Last time we were waiting for some results, weren't we? We were,
Joe
we were, we were, we were. And the results were wonderful. I got into Warwick University and I got an A star and two As, which is very good. Very happy.
Joe
Excellent. But it doesn't like, you sit in the glory of it for about 24 hours and then you realise, Oh crap, I've got like a month to get everything and figure out my life. So, you know, I enjoyed it for that weekend and now I've been, I went to Bluewater and Ikea today and I feel like I'm buying a house where it's only really a flat the size of a cow. So, you know,
Speaker 1
it's fun, but
Joe
it's everyone's experience and I'm watching about 150 other people my age trying to fumble their way through the Ikea kitchen section was quite amusing to me. But no, you know, right of passage, I guess, but no, I'm very good Mike.
Mike Dowling
Surely you can cook noodles, you'll be all right.
Joe
I'm fine, I'm not going to be a problem, I can cook and I can live.
Mike Dowling
If you left no money for food.
Joe
That's a good point. If push comes to shove, that you might see me on the following Saturdays with a little bucket saying the Giroconi Coffee Foundation just to, you know, raise food for the for the first few weeks of union, you know, please do give generously.
Mike Dowling
Go fund me, Ramin.
Joe
Go fund me, I want to deliver room.
Mike Dowling
Go fund Joe. Right. I did send you a question in the invite, you've forgotten what it is, but we will do the little jingle and then you'll be thinking. Oh, hang on.
Mike Dowling
I haven't even changed that part of the question. One second. I'll find out what the question is that I sent you. I know what the question is.
Mike Dowling
How do you manage the highs and lows of being a football supporter throughout the season? Quite relevant on topic. And I did send it to you a couple of weeks ago. So bear with.
Mike Dowling
Right, first of all, everyone, Sally's just shouted out, do you mean the lows of lows, which is outrageous. But Joe, how do you manage the highs and lows of a football season?
Joe
It's changed as I've turned 18. No, I mean, I think the one thing, especially I think about this club is the lows around the people who are there to make them slightly less worse lows and even the highs feeling better because you're around the people who make those highs feel even more intense and wonderful. Me personally, I think you have to have the positive for positive mental attitude as Mike has reminded me before before the podcast began.
Joe
But yeah, it's spending time with people that want to make you enjoy yourself, but spending time with people that make you laugh and people that make you happy, that always makes stuff better. It's kind of a sad, kind of a soppy answer, but you know, this is the truth. I mean, yesterday we had a, not the greatest result, but I had a wonderful evening celebrating the legend that is Vicky Garner's birthday in the bar. And, you know, it was a wonderful evening and I got to spend some time with some lovely people.
Joe
So yes, including, the very man behind the podcast, Mr. Mike Dowling. So it was a wonderful, wonderful evening, and it made the low of quite a depressing result, slightly less bad, and ended the evening on a high. So it's all about, you know, transformations.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, we've had two managers now with the mantra of never too high, never too low. And the previous one is it's something like 99% low and 1% good, and you've got to have the low to enjoy the good. So yeah, it's never about the result. It's about the day, I think anyway.
Mike Dowling
But yeah, give us your answers, share your thoughts on social media, although no one ever does this, at Sodden Podcast. How do you manage the highs and lows in football season? There was some information about the coaches, but I think Rochdale 1 didn't quite get enough in there. I don't think so.
Mike Dowling
The next away game is a little while, so I'll pick that up on the next one. And the ladies team, they lost today to Dartford. I think it was 0-0 at halftime and lost 2-0 overall. but Dartford are one of those clubs that are always going to be up there at the moment.
Mike Dowling
Quite strangely, I noticed on their Twitter they've got the, I think they might even have more than the Dartford men players or they've got the blue tick or something. Nothing very exciting on the podcast, I've interviewed Robin Jones yesterday in hospitality, I thought that went really, really well and Alex Kirk, which went well, but as Kirky said, he was like, I haven't really got much to add at the moment. I've been out injured for quite a while. But yeah, good bloke and I hope he gets well very soon.
Mike Dowling
It's broken back. It's like, the man's walking
Speaker 1
around.
Mike Dowling
I'm like, are you sure you should be walking about? But yeah, he seemed in good spirits and he was hinting quite a while, but hopefully 2025 it will be before he comes back, but if not, early 26. So on to yesterday, a little bit of a change up in the line-up. We saw Nadas drop to the bench and Brandon come in.
Mike Dowling
Was there anything in that line-up that surprised you or anything that you'd wish to happen?
Joe
I think Brandon deserves a start. I think he's had a better start to the season. I think he provides more pressing, more intense. I think his runs are better and I think he's more involved in the build-up of a goal.
Joe
I think that is his brilliant run, a brilliant stroke and he just hasn't been able to show it. I think Brandon deserved the start and also Ash started on Wednesday. So it makes sense to switch it up. No Woody.
Joe
I mean, you know, he's starting to get back to full fitness. I was disappointed to not even see him on the bench, but it was excellent at Solihull Moors and I think he's really, compared to where he was last season, he's leaps and bounds ahead and just, yeah. Disappointed not to see him. Tizzard wasn't playing.
Joe
I thought he might play but I wasn't entirely sure. Could see Mo Darva on the bench, you know, hasn't really, obviously with injury and just people getting into their stride, hasn't really had a shot in that midfield. But yeah, pretty, the team I expected, no Kane Crichlow, which is, you know, I thought he was pretty good at Sonny Helmholtz but nothing really came from it. But yeah, I thought, I thought Brandon was deserved to start.
Joe
Nobody was a bit disappointing but Jadon and David have certainly started the season in a positive manner and I think Brandon kind of staked his claim yesterday.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, it would have also given Scumford a little bit to think about because he would have probably assumed Nadas was going to be starting. I like the two different strikers that you can switch it up and it gives the defence, again, they have to then switch on, think and how they're going to deal with someone. It was a seesaw match, it was a 0-1, 2-1, 3-2, 3 game, so good for the neutrals, but none of us are neutral, so not that great for us. On balance, they probably deserved the lead.
Mike Dowling
I know you're watching from a slightly different sort of viewpoint these days, but did you feel that they were on top for that sort of first half?
Joe
Yeah, 100%. They were better. They were more in it. They won second balls.
Joe
Those first 15-20 minutes, I was really worried. I texted Jack Daly and I said, I'm worried. And then Jack Taylor scored. So I was less worried.
Joe
But at the first half an hour, we just weren't on it enough. We looked like, well, I mean, you need a bit more of a physical presence up top. And we only had Brandon and David, which doesn't work. Because if you've got, you know, they're two I think I like 6-3 minimum, both of them.
Joe
It just doesn't work if we're playing that long ball stuff. And every time we did, we were riding our luck, just, you know, people trying to take it forward and getting tackled, just like we couldn't get it sorted out. Reminiscent of problems at Forest Green and Fulham before that. So, yeah, it was a bit worrying and they definitely deserve, they could have had more, that number 7, number Howe on the left was a real problem.
Joe
He looks like a really sorry player. Callum Roberts on the right was kept more quiet by him. by Vincent, but I don't think it's anything to do with Aaron Jones on the other side. I think Howard just is a very good player, wiping through the middle, beasting before he went off injured again.
Joe
Their attack, it was just, they looked so clean from front to back, whereas we just looked like a kind of a tail of the last half. God knows, since, I don't know, season after we got to the Pizza Cup final, just I think There are so many times in so many games, and I'm the manager, and I'm out of the team, and I'm out of the players, where we seem so much like defence and attack rather than a team. And that is our problem.
Joe
And it's just, there are reminiscences of the way we play in that. In our relegation season, if we didn't have anywhere to go, it'd just go up. Back then we'd aim for Harry Smith, but now you've not even got an aerial presence up there, so it was just kind of nowhere. But, you know, tide turned and we did well to fight back and get it gone from a set piece, which is something which is coming a bit more regularly this season.
Mike Dowling
corner as well. I mean, at the time, I was just delighted to be scored, but watching it back, I was like, he had done it all the time in the world, Ben. It was on to his head, and he was like, I'm wondering where I'm going to place this. But yeah, I can't really congratulate him, but Jack, great first goal, and brought us back into it.
Mike Dowling
But from what you're saying there, where people seem to not want the ball or just to get rid of it, Do you think that's because they're then getting worried about losing the ball, getting caught in possession? What we're doing, do we give this little get
Speaker 1
rid of
Mike Dowling
it energy? I don't know. Obviously, there are people who have much more experience than I do at football, but there's got to be something to be, why is this happening?
Joe
I think it's a two-fold thing. I think Scunthorpe will pull up a lot of trees this season. Everyone expects, you know, coming up from the National League North, but they're a big club. They are underperforming.
Joe
They should have been up the season before that. They are good and I wouldn't be surprised if they continue this vein of form. They should be top half comfortably. Their press was excellent, really strong.
Joe
As was Forrest Green's the other night. JT didn't have the greatest first half of an hour. He really struggled and I was really glad because he issued a really good second half. The goal gave him confidence a few shaky last few games, but the goal gave him a lot of confidence, which was good.
Joe
I don't think it's people don't want the ball. I just think, I don't even know. Tactically, it looked like we just couldn't find players. whether that be, you know, the system they played just meant that our gaps weren't there.
Joe
So that's a tactical thing. Is it the players, you know, okay, is there a certain amount of rigidity in the way they're thinking, you know, coming off the back of a 4-0 and a 7-0 and a 0-0 and no win this season, you know, no home game with all that. In your head, there's, I'm sure there's something a little bit there, a bit like, okay, I wanted my instructions to be in this position, but you've got to stray from that if the ball isn't on and you've got to find a way around it. First half, it was like we were so unwilling to go away from the instruction or the role that they were playing, that they were more flexible and they picked up pieces from that and could sense a slight sense of hesitancy.
Joe
I wouldn't say it's fear, because I don't think we have fear. I think the way we played in the second half show, it's not fear, it's just a little bit of hesitation, which we need to eradicate quickly because teams up and down the league, it's too good a league to have that in us and teams will punish us. And teams have punished us and teams are punishing us. So I think that's there.
Joe
But, you know, the final 10 of the first half were very back and forth. I mean, it was a bit like 80th minute territory. You know, you have an attack and it wouldn't be that the five minutes of keep ball, go ball forward, long throw forward, flick on, through to keeper again. It was very much, you know, counterattacks from us quite a lot.
Joe
They'd sit or try and play a ball forward, a lot of switching the ball, a lot of active play, which is really good to see and not just kind of dull possession-based stuff, which was, you know, very good for the neutral, even the spectator for either team. I don't think you could argue yesterday was a boring game by any means, but to go in at half-time 1-1, considering the difficult first 30 we had, Yeah, positive signs.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. I mean, yeah, going in there thinking, okay, we could have been blown away. We held on here. So coming out with a bit of hope for the second half and paid off straight away almost.
Mike Dowling
Brandon's goal. Excellent ball in. He won a header. I mean, it
Joe
was a brilliant movement from in the box. Liam Vincent's balling was unbelievable. Turned round it. Do you know what it reminded me of?
Joe
First game of the season, we went down, Josh Coley balling in luck for the third goal against Notts County. Amazing balling. And Amaury Patrick headed it. You know, he's a tall-ish guy and Coley turns around to the, I think, your stand behind you and kind of like celebrates towards you.
Joe
Vincent did the same to the homestand here. And it was just a wonderful bowling, great, really good header, like glancing, and it was coming and dipping quickly. And yeah, the celebrations from the players, it was almost, you could see the weight lifted off their backs. And yeah, did we deserve to be 2-1 up in the 47th minute?
Joe
No. Did we, well, I don't, based on the game so far, however, it's not, I don't think we deserve to win it. I think deserve shouldn't come into it. It should be, we made the most of our chances and we didn't have many chances and we took them and that's all that matters and felt good in that moment.
Joe
It was a positive buzz. It was a good time to be a starter for about 10 minutes.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, it was one of those of, have we done this too early? Great score always, but it's in like, right, are we now going to go for the throat, or are we going to try and say, right, let's hold this. I don't think we tried to hold it, but it did give them a lot of time to come back, and they did. Second goal, Yes, fine, whatever.
Mike Dowling
Equaliser. But we still, we're in it. As you've already said, against a good side, we're in what I've been saying, Awful August. We've got good sides all the time that we're playing.
Mike Dowling
So, yes, everyone wants a win, but a draw wouldn't have been the end of the world. But it's the third goal that was, well now I've seen it back it's not so much, but at the time it seemed quite controversial, lots of people talking to me afterwards made it even worse, but your view at the time, you kind of looked at me quizzically when I said I've had lots of people say that did not cross the line and
Speaker 1
you were
Mike Dowling
like I think it did and I was like well the ref gave it so yeah, but what was your view at the time because I wasn't sure, but I'm blind. I mean,
Joe
you, you're actually, obviously you're closer, but I was, I was... I was
Mike Dowling
at the other end that time.
Joe
Oh, you were at the other end. Well, I was watching the PA do it. Now, my first indecision was like, who the hell scored? Because I can't, I'm not just going to do that.
Joe
And it was either, well, they credited it to their number nine, their number five calibrated it, I went with number five. I, the only reason I thought, I, I thought it went in is because, um, lack of protest from us. There's initial things, but it wasn't like the Vincent card where there's a lot of questions from everyone. It was much more like.
Joe
Okay, scum I scramble, it's gone in. There was no, there was not a lot of, there wasn't, you know, there was a look to the referee, but there wasn't too much hesitancy. There were a few scant thought players. And I was like, the way they're all slightly pretty sure that that's gone in, made me think, okay, that's gone in.
Joe
You know, didn't clear our lines. They're a very airily difficult team to play against. And yeah, we, I mean, the second goal again was disappointing. just midfielders not picking back.
Joe
I saw it about five seconds before it happened, just Steve and John urging some players to get back. And the two players who didn't get back left the two players who linked up the assist and the goal scorer for Scunthorpe unmarked to hit it past Jack. So it's those little things. We looked a little bit tired at the 65th minute.
Joe
for some reason, and then they scored their second, they scored their third, we still looked tired, and then we were sprung into life by something which really should have put us down and out.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, so The red as well, I was kind of opposite the curver side. And I saw the challenge, and I saw it was given as a free kick, and I saw the ref talking to him. I did, in first viewing, obviously with the amber specs on, thought, he's never booking him for that. And I was right, he wasn't booking him for it.
Mike Dowling
What were your thoughts on that, and what do you think since watching it back?
Joe
I didn't
Mike Dowling
see it. Right.
Joe
I was, I was preparing to announce the raffle numbers, the club club shop draw, which I then did while the demonstrations were happening. But because, you know, I'm just focusing on my job. But
Speaker 3
I
Joe
just I just saw I just thought I mean, I didn't, I literally didn't see it. I watched the replay afterwards. The moment your foot's up is the moment that you put a, you plant a seed of doubt in the referee's mind, you've given the option. And at that point, you can't have too many qualms with the decision.
Joe
If the foot's down and, you know, maybe you're a bit late, then it's a yellow, but it's never a red, but it's possible, potentially a violent play. your foot's up you're engaging an opponent and that's the reason. Steve had no problem. I only saw, I think, I don't know if Liam thought his foot was down, he didn't seem, I think he seemed shocked by the fact that if he thought his foot was down, It was late, it wasn't as late, you know, it was, it was, it was, you
Joe
know, kind of a, it wasn't a 50-50, but it was about a 65-35-60-40. Like, it's not like he's gone in two seconds after the ball's passed or a second after the ball's passed and he just completely misjudged it. It was, you know, on another day, if the scuddy play was slightly slower, he gets there. But he's gone in with the stud and the foot up, which, you know, there's a
Speaker 3
reason he's
Mike Dowling
the
Joe
Lord for that.
Mike Dowling
I've seen it described as a nothing challenge and I've seen it described as a horror challenge and sort of it was like okay it was I mean there was one of them who was gonna meet him in the car park afterwards not entirely oh I saw that that made me laugh it's even at the match um but uh yeah I'll see you in the car park. All right, very cool. But yeah, Liam did sort of seem, he said, he says, I need to see it back because I wasn't convinced.
Mike Dowling
But like you said, he might have thought that he was a bit quicker to it than he was. But he's going to be a miss because like you said, he
Speaker 1
had
Mike Dowling
to cross for Brandon's goal. He was the one who set Nader's off on his great run against York to cross it in for David's goal. He kept Callum Roberts
Joe
quite quiet.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, he's going to be a miss, especially as Vaz is limping around at the moment. So, Junior.
Joe
And I'm going to say this, I think Junior should start even if Vaz was fit.
Mike Dowling
Junior's a right back, so Junior needs to be... I'm aware,
Joe
but Junior was good yesterday and he
Mike Dowling
was
Joe
good at Forrest Green and I think, you know, as a number of players are, it's not easy when you're losing and people dipping in and out of form. Baz struggled. He didn't look as zippy as you've seen him and I think he's an excellent player. He showed it at times last season.
Joe
He didn't look up to the standards that we saw. And I think Juni is, you know, chomping at the bit, trying to get, trying to get in. And it's really done. So the reason we signed him on a pro, the only one of last year's cohort to sign on a pro.
Joe
So I don't know.
Mike Dowling
I was just thinking, have we got anyone else? I don't know. Well, I
Joe
don't
Mike Dowling
think Adam
Joe
Rees has signed a contract yet and JT was here before. So, and, you know, obviously Vinny Toomey and Jordan Trickett and they're more, they all played, but I don't think I'm a pro yet. So, you know, there's a reason he really highly rates him. I hope to see him on I hope to see you tomorrow afternoon.
Joe
It feels weird. And also, I was going to say Tuesday, but it's a stupid Wednesday thing. It's messing up my head. But no, I think he deserved it.
Joe
Yeah, I think he deserves it, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe
Steve,
Mike Dowling
I mean, there's a few bits around this. So we might jump around a little bit. people have differing opinions. I mean, as Andy's quite fond of saying, people have just taken against Steve from January 2024, so it doesn't matter what happens.
Mike Dowling
But in his interview, he's been quite sort of open and honest. I did notice there was a bit of edits in the interview, so he may have been even more
Speaker 1
open and
Mike Dowling
honest. But he has said, not good enough. It's not good enough. He's been quite clear from the start, our home form is something they want to deal with this year.
Mike Dowling
I mean, putting it back into perspective, that's two home games now, one draw, but against two very good sides. So if we played two of the lower ranked sides, we could have got two wins and everyone would be
Speaker 1
like, oh, isn't it
Mike Dowling
amazing? Do you think that's what the players need to hear? Not good enough? I mean, clearly it is.
Mike Dowling
It needs to make them work that bit harder. But if you were a player in that dressing room, do you not think, oh, I wish he'd be defending us a bit more?
Joe
Firstly, I filmed the interview. The edits were completely nothing to do with what Steve said. They were just pauses in the questioning. It was just stuff like that.
Joe
Mr. Ryan Herrick was on socials yesterday. Mr. Bennett, our normal social media manager, was watching at a festival. So he was doing the interview for the first time, did amazingly well.
Speaker 3
Had
Joe
some great, great, great questions. But that was nothing Steve, you know, where everything you said was in the interview. As a dressing room. I think there's a worry that if in my head if he does come and defend and defend and defend.
Joe
It's not good enough. I agree. It isn't and you have to make that clear. He knows it but he's not also saying the players aren't good enough.
Joe
He's also saying by extension, you know, he said it so many times, we are not good enough.
Speaker 3
He
Joe
never says they're not good enough. It's always we, and he takes that the hardest. And yeah, he really does. So I don't think, if I were a player in that dressing room, I think they are very aware of the fact that the gaffer is so not happy with the way things are going.
Joe
If you don't think that, he doesn't know that, then I honestly don't know what to say to you. I think he takes
Mike Dowling
it. There's no point sugarcoating it, is there? There's no point. No,
Joe
no, no, no. Because sugarcoating it denies that there's actually a problem, which there is. Four homings in 25, not homings in January. That is a problem.
Joe
And that's not, it isn't good enough. And, you know, four, 20 seconds after four games, 74 games, very difficult four, four games, but they're not going to get any easier. The next two are very hard. And then you say, oh, B Wood, Tamworth, Boston.
Joe
Well, B Wood fighting for their lives and not expected to do very well, trying to uproot things and stay in this season. Tamworth, second season syndrome, can they do it again? But, you know, a very difficult team to play. Boston having had a great season last season.
Joe
And you look at that, Woking now probably looking to prove a point after being at the foot of the table. You know, there is no easy game and you can't just say, oh, we'll run through this. Because if he says, oh, they're difficult fixtures, they all are difficult fixtures. Every game in this league is a difficult fixture.
Joe
Like, if you think, oh, even Morecambe. I mean, look at Morecambe yesterday. Morecambe,
Speaker 3
more than
Joe
any other club in this league, will have the bit between the teeth to absolutely fight for every point because no one expected them to be here. I hedge my bets to say 95% of the people who attended that game yesterday thought we'd be playing a 23-man league this season. Everyone, I'm sure, when I announced yesterday that 98th-minute winner for Morecambe against Altrincham had a little, ah, that's nice, in the main stand to beat Altrincham on their first game back on the verge of extinction. So to say, oh, these are tough games, it's a tough August.
Joe
I don't think that's a valid excuse because yes, they're good teams, but I don't think they've all been at their best. I don't think York were at their best. I don't think Solihull were at their best. I don't think Scunthorpe were at their best for the entire game.
Joe
I think Forest Green were very, very good. And I think they, you know, maybe people underestimated them because they thought, oh Robbie Savage, all that, Forest Green, a bit wishy-washy. They looked extremely capable as a side. And I mean, you know, Rochdale, they would have thought, well, they clearly did think, Jim McNulty thought, Brackley, who, you know, aren't expected to do brilliantly, will be only doing 11 changes yesterday and lost 2-1.
Joe
They come now tomorrow at home where they're very strong and they'll be thinking, right, we were expected to beat these lot and we suffered an embarrassing defeat. So those 11 players who didn't play and got taken out of the line-up, they'll be proud to prove something. So that makes that game even harder. But comparing difficulty of fixtures in a league where everyone is there on merit is, I think, a pointless, pointless game.
Joe
And just to go game by game and just to say, you know, we're not good enough at the moment. That's the plain truth of it. I think it's the only thing that Steve can do because sugarcoating it, going too harsh, either way is going to have a negative effect on both the fans, which Let's be frank. I don't know how much worse it is.
Joe
It's not the best at the moment. Again, let's not sugarcoat it. Or to say, oh, you know, it's working, all this, we've got progress to come, and there are some good things from today's game. We lost.
Joe
You can have 76% possession, 95% pass accuracy, great rhythms,
Speaker 3
shots on
Joe
target. No one cares. We didn't get three points. And that's all he cares about.
Joe
That's all we care about. We are the same. And if you don't think that, we all want the same thing. We want success.
Joe
And if you think there are differing objectives in that squad or in that, because I think in previous years gone by and recent years gone by, there have been individuals in the squads where they have different objectives, objectives to advance their careers. I would, I tell you 100% right now, I do not believe that there was anyone in that dressing room that has differing objectives than to get this up, perhaps to succeed this season. in the staff or in the players. So I think the way he handled it in the interview over the last few weeks, it's the only thing you can do because either way, you're not going to get a positive reaction and it's a negative situation in the status quo.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. So before we go on to that, which is a lot of points of view, Do you think this is then too early? Because I think, differing opinion now, I think August was always going to be a really difficult thing and if we had anything at the end of August we were coming out of it all right. On paper it looked really, really difficult.
Speaker 1
I'd
Mike Dowling
actually forgotten that Boreham would have Matt Rush to come back and haunt us in a week or so's time, so thanks for that. But do we think that we're going to be then sucked into this relegation battle? Or do you think we're going to then just start picking up the points quietly and get back up there towards the mid end of the season? 10%, not even 10% of the season's gone, so.
Joe
That's completely true, I honestly don't know. It's all game by game at the moment, because if you're at the top, if you're the South Ends and the Scunthorpes and the Hartlepools and the XYZs of this world, who are flying, you can sort of look in two, three game batches. We can't. We have to try and maximize points here because, you know, as a club, it's not a good position and you've got to think, okay, we can't be looking for, we can't just go, we'll lose at Rochdale and Carlisle and we'll hopefully get points at B Wood.
Joe
You've just discounted six points. I don't get that. I honestly don't get that mentality. You can't just discount games and be like, oh, we'll lose that.
Joe
But what if we win? Because if we pick up six points in the next week, I can guarantee you everyone's going to be absolutely buzzing on Saturday night and being like, oh, what a change. Steve got them to motivate. So
Speaker 3
the
Joe
players click. Well, not everyone. You're never going to please everyone. That much I've learned over the last few years.
Joe
But if we get 3-1 tomorrow, 4-0 Saturday, absolutely blow them away. Everyone plays off the park. Brilliant connection with the fans, roaring them on. the mood is completely different.
Joe
So that's the first thing. You can't just get discount games because they look hard on paper because games like Scunthorpe and Solihull and Gilroy, those two, people were like Scunthorpe went up last season, that should be a nice respite after a difficult few games against York and Forest Green. look what happened yesterday. And so I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't honestly, honestly don't know.
Joe
And that isn't me trying to play devil's advocate or anything or not want to give an answer. I genuinely don't know. And I think if you ask me before I'm off to Union in late September, I'll be able to give you an answer because you'll know where we're at as a club, as a fan base and as a squad. It'll become more evident, but four games, I mean, Barnet lost, How many last season?
Joe
Seven, eight? Something like that. York lost more. I'll look it up now.
Speaker 3
But, you know,
Joe
let's not look it up. Let's not ruin it. But, you know, you're getting the point I make.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, so I didn't put the points of view out thing again, because I could already see everyone's points of view. It was exactly the same as I recorded on the other night, more about relegation form and general glee and happiness that we're struggling. I'm of the opinion that, well, A, you support the club as they are. You should not be demanding anyone out.
Mike Dowling
That's certainly not going to help anyone, in my opinion. Also, I don't think necessarily changing managers this often helps. The best, biggest example, and you're way too young, you'll know who he is, but Alex Ferguson was in that job for seven, eight years, didn't win anything, and then went on winning everything, because he had time to build. And then how many managers have they had since?
Mike Dowling
ruin what was built because they keep changing them over and over. You may or may not want to answer that question. It's completely up to you. But do you sense, like I'm getting frustrated on social media, the glee of certain people that we're losing?
Mike Dowling
Yes. Yeah. Good. It's not just
Speaker 1
because
Mike Dowling
I only worked out recently. That's what's upsetting me. Not the losses. It's the why people pleased we're losing.
Mike Dowling
This
Joe
is all our club. If you want the manager out, if you want this out, if you don't like him, if you like him, fine. a happiness book for losing to support what you believe is something I will never get. And if you think that's supporting a club, that's not right.
Joe
You're not supporting a club, Ben. You're to get what, you know, and even Steve has said this, if you don't like me, fine. You know, it's not very difficult to get people that, and we've been blessed in previous managers, Matt and Doz and like, a lot of people, a lot, a lot, a lot of people love them at this club. And, you know, it's differing relationships.
Joe
It's got to change. You know, since 2008, we've had three managers. So, you know, it's different. Wishing failure or wishing bad results on a group who are trying to represent your club, that isn't support.
Joe
That is, the opposite and I can't think of a word to describe right now, but it's not even, it didn't make, you know, it makes me, it used to annoy me. Now it just, I just, I honestly, I honestly physically don't understand it. And I, and also people who are like, you don't have the X, Y, Z to have an opinion because you're, you've been here less time or you don't come to the X pub or all this, all this stuff. I've just heard it over the last few weeks.
Joe
I'm just like, guys, We all like the club. There's no right way to be a football fan. People enjoy it in different ways. I am no less of a fan of Southern United than Mike Dowling, and Mike Dowling's no less of a fan.
Joe
He's been here longer. But we both throw ourselves into the club. We both love it. We both want to see it do well.
Joe
And when it doesn't, we stick together. It is more important that you stick together in times of difficulty than in times of success, because everyone can enjoy each other's success, but difficulty needs the cohesion. And right now we have anything but cohesion amongst the fan base. And it's really, really damaging both on and off the pitch.
Mike Dowling
Well, there's a couple of things. A lot of it is because, as you said, they don't like Steve for whatever reason. But then a lot of these people who are very vocal about not liking him have never actually turned up to any of the events that Claire put on to actually meet him. And some people who were a little bit like, don't like him, when they're at the events and they've met him and spoke to him, they're like, oh, actually, I've changed my opinion.
Mike Dowling
And you actually see some of them now who were anti defending, which is quite interesting. But yeah, it just, it just is odd. There were people who seemed unhappy that we equalized, that we took the lead yesterday, didn't celebrate us taking the lead. Anyway, we're gonna, we're gonna move on.
Mike Dowling
I'm skipping the next lead, the Good, the Bad and the Funny. We're just going to talk about Rochdale very, very quickly. So, as you said, they rested 11 players, which, who knows whether that's some kind of protest that these fixtures have been so many. I mean, it's ridiculous you haven't played that many fixtures in one month.
Mike Dowling
But it's coming thick and fast, which in one way for us at the moment where, oh, that's what I was going to say, we're not in a crisis. The league table didn't actually used to get printed until six or 10 games. So many, many years ago, you would never know where you were in comparison to everyone else because the table just was never printed. So, yeah, so it was
Speaker 1
a
Mike Dowling
case of, oh well, you might have an idea what teams have won and work it out yourself but it was never anywhere. But we are away. I don't think we've had happy hunting at Rochdale for a little while. But how do you see the game all going?
Mike Dowling
Again, we're going to be difficult to know what kind of side they're putting on. Yeah, how do you see it going? And just in general, really, do you think we're going to come away with anything at the end? And a prediction at the end as well?
Joe
It will be a very, very tough game. They'll be wanting to get back off the mat after being beaten by a side again, which are perceived to be weaker. Yeah, maybe they are weaker, but they're not a pushover. There's a reason they're in this league.
Joe
They won the National League North last year. And who did they beat? And who did they beat to that title? The team who beat us 3-2 yesterday.
Joe
So they're massively, that being Brackley. Yeah, they'll be difficult. We'll, again, also want to get off the mat. Two defeats in a row, one away, one at home.
Joe
it will be difficult. A point is great away, a win's even better. I'm never going to predict, you know, do I think we will struggle? If they're on form, yes, because I think we are struggling at the moment ourselves.
Joe
And I think, do I think they maybe have a bit more quality at this moment in their team, considering what they've shown before yesterday's game? Yes. However, have we seen this team's quality? It's this season in very small patches.
Joe
We've seen it in patches yesterday, patches at Forest Green and in patches at York. Maybe is it time for it all to come together? Perhaps. But to go into it being like, oh, we've lost.
Joe
Yeah, never. You can't do it. It's not, again, not supporting it. You've got to go, right, we might lose this today because they are a very good team.
Joe
But to not go in with the desire to cause an upset, to shut up the home end, boggles me that you don't have that. So I think it'll be a high-intensity game. They've got a lot of energy. We, you know, players who didn't get to start yesterday, the likes of Nades Jr.
Joe
coming in maybe for Liam, they'll want to prove themselves. Maybe the likes of Dylan and Jack off the bench, who were on the bench yesterday, will want to prove. So that may be Mo getting his first start. They'll have something to prove.
Joe
They weren't selected for yesterday's game. It's a 48-hour turnaround. Show the youth fans, show Steve, show John, show the Rochester fans, show the league what they can do. And I'm going to predict a 1-1 draw, a battle game.
Joe
Maybe we have to sit a bit deeper, but we're defensively resolute and we seem quite good on the counter this year. Simpa maybe start getting us off and running with the goals. But, you know, the one thing I think to go into it saying we've lost or to not go or to not follow it or to not all this because you think we're going to lose. Yeah, that is exactly what we don't need right now.
Joe
Really not. And not exactly. And even if you don't like Steve, not what Steve reads right now, it's definitely what the players don't need right now. Because at least I was speaking to I think I was speaking to AB yesterday and I said to him, the one thing I remember from our relegation season is when the mood was high, when we was a little bit of a chance where something could happen, we were
Joe
so united. There was games against Forest Green, Salford, Swindon, Accrington Stanley in the Royal Marsden kit. Doncaster toured the last minute, Colchester won one, and then we were just coming forward relentlessly, Lake and Drew McKenna, Smith. I remember those games, and I'm just thinking, where is this?
Joe
We were dead and buried at Christmas. We had less than 10 points, and we lost 8-0 to Stockport. And still, yeah, I know it's a new manager. We were so together.
Joe
We were really, really tight-knit as a fan base. We need that now. And I know we're in the National League, and I know it's less sexy than the EFL, and I know there's smaller teams, and I know it's You know, it's not the same, the man who took us up to the EFL. It's still your club.
Joe
And that is one thing we need right now, because it's one thing we're crying out for on the pitch, off the pitch, in the staff. It's a bit of just community feeling, which is this club. And it's still there. You can still see it there on match day and stuff.
Joe
You need everyone to just come together and be like, we need to back these lot, because they need it from us. When you're down, if you've got nothing from the fans, you saw the video on Friday. They are asking for it. They want that.
Joe
The players wanted to do that. The players were really up for doing that. I filmed it, and I was like, what are we going to say? How are we going to do it?
Joe
Want it to look good? They want that. They want the connection. And if there is no effort from the fans, they'll stop trying, less motivation to perform, and it gets worse.
Joe
No matter what the score is tomorrow, no matter how we play or how we play, yeah, yeah, the decision. Support, support, support, support. That should be the thing for the next two games because it's rough. And we've gone through rough times before, we'll go through rough times again.
Joe
It will improve just if we, they will feel so much rougher if everyone's just warring each other.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, no, absolutely. That does not.
Joe
I sound like a motivational speaker, but it wasn't even my intention to come as a focus. You think about it. And I know I spoke about it briefly with you yesterday, Mike, and we were just both like, we need it right now.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I exude positivity.
Joe
Very much.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I think just one of the little points where you say, oh, we shouldn't be going in expecting to lose. I think the way I am, I'm an Ireland supporter, and I was during the Jack Charlton years, and it was always you expect, you want to win, but you expect to lose. And that way, you're always, your expectations are over-exceeded, or, oh well, okay, never mind. But the other thing is, I just think, as you were saying, oh, Steve won't care if people like him.
Mike Dowling
I was like, oh yeah, he's Millwall. He absolutely won't care. But I
Speaker 1
care,
Mike Dowling
because yeah, you just need to speak to him. He's good. He's funny. He just doesn't get to show it very often.
Mike Dowling
He is actually very funny. Yeah, especially if we've lost. He doesn't want to do that whole talk, and he wants to sulk, and he's a long journey home. But interestingly, you said 1-1, because that is what the AI has predicted as well.
Mike Dowling
Maybe I am, Mike. And it said Brandon. Oh my God, that'd be so much easier than getting guests. I could just do AI avatars.
Mike Dowling
But it said that Brandon's going to score, which is better than last week where it said Will Davis was going to score. And I've actually, being me, I've gone 2-1 to Sutton, wouldn't add us to score. So full of confidence. Right, we're gonna wrap it up.
Mike Dowling
I've kept you a little while and we appreciate the attention and feedback. I'm not doing the sound of it. Joe and I just discovered there's little sound effects on here. I'm not
Joe
involved. He found it and spent like three minutes playing with it while I slowly ignored him.
Mike Dowling
Isn't that good? I don't know how loud that is, but anyway. It's loud in my ear,
Joe
it's too loud.
Mike Dowling
Let us know how you manage the highs and lows of a season and how you deal with it. Follow, like and share out some podcasts on all social medias. And let us know, leave us a review on any of the review things. I don't know what he's doing.
Mike Dowling
I think he's doing John Cena. I'm not sure. Five stars, five stars. Sorry.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. Damn it. Um, I
Speaker 1
didn't know the
Mike Dowling
hashtag one. Um, anyway,
Speaker 1
big thank
Mike Dowling
you to our sponsors, Lucky Star Gin, big thank Joe for going solo today. And thanks for everyone for listening. Hope you enjoyed the podcast. Take care and we'll see you soon.
Mike Dowling
Bye-bye.
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