Can learning from setbacks be the key to long-term success?
Introduction
In this week’s episode of Sutton United Talk Time on Podcast, I sit down with Sutton United assistant manager Jimmy Dack for an honest and thoughtful conversation about growth, resilience, and taking responsibility. As the club works to bounce back after a tough season, Jimmy reflects on what went wrong, what lessons have been learned, and how the team is planning to come back stronger.
Mike Dowling
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Suston United Talk Time on the podcast in association
with Lucky Star Team. I'm your host, Mike, as always. And with me today, we have got Jimmy Dac
talking all about the Academy. Every season, Jimmy, I say, oh, we should keep in touch.
Mike Dowling
We should do more through the season than your schedule. My schedule goes mad, and we end
up doing it at the start of the season. So there's a lot to sort of go through. But frstly, how have
you been?
Jimmy Dack
I've been fne, yeah. It's been quite a challenging last year in regards to where we are as an
academy. And that's sort of taken at your hands, really, by how the frst team are doing. And it's
no refection on the academy or the players or the staff.
Jimmy Dack
You know, the EFL is all related to staying in the Football League. And obviously, you know,
everyone knows our fate from last year. And there's a big fallout off the back end of it. And, you
know, I mean, I didn't realize how tough it would be.
Jimmy Dack
But, yeah, it's just there's not enough things in place to support you, really. That's from the
Football League. and us as a club. we can't fnance the big gap that you're supposed to pay for to
stay in the football league.
Jimmy Dack
I mean, it's really tough. So for clubs like us, it was always going to be a big ask. And if I'm honest
with you, for the last sort of three years we've come in, we started to really compete and do really
well in all fronts, on all age groups. Uh, so that wasn't my biggest issue here in terms of players,
because we can get, we can, we'll always attract good players in, in where we're located in South
London.
Jimmy Dack
Um, but the biggest issue we've got is, is all the other bits and pieces that go with it. And most of
it's all down to fnance really. Um, you know, there's some big clubs playing in the same leagues
as us, like, you know, Plymouths and, Brentford and Luton and stuff like that. So it's always going
to be tough.
Jimmy Dack
But, you know, we fnished, I think it was sixth in the league, which, you know, is a credit to a team
that's in the conference. So I was so pleased and delighted with the players and all the staff's
efforts, really.
Mike Dowling
Excellent, well there's a few sort of bits I kind of want to touch on, just sort of general questions
about how things are going, but everyone we love the engagement, we want you to keep the
conversation going, share your thoughts on this episode, let me know what else you'd like to hear,
if you've got any questions for Jimmy directly you can always send them to me and I'll pass them
on for you. So The academy is kind of a pillar of our identity, it's not just a football nursery, we try
and sort of create rounded individuals. What is the core, I mean some of this is going to be
proper management speak, I really do apologise, what's the core philosophy that drives
everything from all the age groups, from like the under-9s now up to the under-19s.
Mike Dowling
How do you give these players their identity?
Jimmy Dack
Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, look, we haven't... I'll just sort of give you a bit of a picture on what's
going on. Obviously, we've lost our academy from under-16s down to under-9s. And we've, we've
sought, well, we've built that bridge with the Sutton Colts again.
Jimmy Dack
So we're now starting to start to work together and really build that relationship strongly.
Because I just want to just sort of say on record, I just felt that the, this was way before I come in,
but I just felt that the Colts really had a had a bit of a bad hand with it all, you know, because the
club going into the Football League, you're not allowed to have any grassroots clubs attached to
you, which I fnd completely strange and stupid, but because, you know, that a heartbeat of any
football. So one of the frst things we've done when we lost our Cat 3 Academy was to build that
relationship because, you know, there's some really good work going on at the Colts.
Jimmy Dack
with good people running it and the dealings I've had with them, they're just so for this football
club. Firstly, I just want to say I'm really grateful that they took us back in and we can take the
club forward because if I'm honest with you, this club for me is all about togetherness. It's all
about being a club, being as one and, you know, it's a community club and we all fght and work
hard for one another, you know, and that's, the Colts is the heartbeat of that, you know, they
started, so, you know, it was my job to build that relationship, you know, I've got a very good
friend in there, Barry Moore is the chairman, And I just knew that that was where we needed to go
to start the next episode or the new venture we're going forward in.
Jimmy Dack
So yeah, so answering your question, it's just that community base feeling that I am still in all the
players, you know, be a good person, be respectful, be respectful to your teammates, be
respectful to your opponents and come in and work hard and play for this football club and
respect the badge. And, you know, I don't know many people that leave this football club and they
still don't look out for their results and stuff like that. And that's that's to me, you know, like I
always said to you, I went off and done other things, but this was always my football club.
Jimmy Dack
This made me what I am today and where I am today. So I try to instill them good things into all
our young players and the staff. You've got to get good staff that believe in the same and want to
create this culture. So that's what we do, really.
Mike Dowling
I mean, I've always been amazed with how many ex-players just love coming back and
remembering Sutton and their time at Sutton. But, I mean, how do you, or how are we going to
not just talk about the buzzwords and say the respect, hard work, togetherness? How do we get
the message across to the kids? Is there kind of things that we do in training, or is it just the
constant?
Jimmy Dack
It's constantly just, teaching them to do right from wrong. Everybody's done things wrong in their
life and you've got to learn from them. We've all made mistakes but it's how you sort of learn
from them and that's what we try to say. We never throw people out the system if they've done
something wrong, we just try to give them a chance to do something right and learn from it.
Jimmy Dack
And that's what we try to do. No one's perfect, right? And make sure when you come into the
football club, you come in and you work hard every day and you're respectful. And that's all we
ask for.
Jimmy Dack
If you work hard, your talent comes through. And that's what we try to say to the boys. Yeah. And
that's where we're at.
Jimmy Dack
And it's no different from, it flters from the top down to the bottom. I've always had massive
support since I've played at this football club and I've come back and worked as an academy
manager. They can't give me everything, but what they can give me, they give me. And the
support from the board and the frst team manager and Obviously, Steve and Terry Bullivant, I
can't thank them enough, and they're all great people.
Jimmy Dack
I
Mike Dowling
mean, as you were talking, I was thinking of something recently where I've said the apology is
sometimes more important than the mistake. So if you apologize properly and deal with it, then
everyone is allowed to get away with something as long
Jimmy Dack
as they can. 100%. 100%. We're all human, and we make mistakes.
Jimmy Dack
It's about us being adults, trying to guide them in the right direction. And one thing, you know, if
you're not coming here, in our academy, I don't say my academy, but it's our academy, you're
coming here, you're coming here to work hard, be a good person and treat everyone with respect
and all the other bits fall into place. And that's just the way it is.
Mike Dowling
That leads nicely, actually, because there's lots happening across the academy. And you said the
younger groups are coming back in, and we're getting more grass roots. How do we measure
success? Obviously, I especially love at the end of the season, we see all these cup fnals and
trophies on display, and I get to retweet, yay, well done.
Mike Dowling
But how do we kind of say, no, this is what success is for this academy side?
Jimmy Dack
Well, you see, it's a bit different for me because I'm coming from an academy environment. So I
look at success being how many players are we getting through to Steve and the frst team.
That's mine and Terry's job. And we're constantly, you know, that's our goal is to get players up
through into the frst team, you know, give them good values, give them good morals.
Jimmy Dack
And I believe we're doing that. You know, we've had players come in for already. We've got Jack
Taylor, obviously, he's starting to come to light now. We've got Vinnie Toon, we've got Junior, who
I believe is going to be a fantastic player, as is Vinnie, and all of them, you know, but they're all
good young men that actually want to be at this football club.
Jimmy Dack
You know, they come to the games, they know everything about what's going on. You know, they
actually love the club, and that's what I believe they should do. you know, have feelings for the
club. And then you want to do a little bit more to help and support them.
Mike Dowling
Absolutely. They are very good young guys because they all humour me and play along with
whatever I say to them and they don't just pat me on the
Jimmy Dack
head and go, go away old
Mike Dowling
man.
Jimmy Dack
They do that to me as
Mike Dowling
well. They're
Jimmy Dack
all so big. But look, listen, we just try and give them as much a good pathway, good information.
And, you know, they're all receptive. You're only as good as how receptive they are.
Jimmy Dack
You know, if they want to do it and they want to do well for themselves in this football club, then
you're halfway there. The battle's pretty much won.
Mike Dowling
So you did mention what you get and what you're able to get. And obviously, you can't get
everything. But looking ahead to the next three to fve years, what is your big picture? What is
your long-term vision?
Jimmy Dack
Well, my long-term vision is to build. Because previously, before I come, there was a really good
college program with obviously over 150 boys in the program. My vision, and then obviously it
was a bit easier because they had the 3G at Sun United and stuff like that. That's where I want to
take it.
Jimmy Dack
I want to take this club back to that. I want us to start to be, bring the community back into the
academy. You know, when it's professional, it's great. And all these elite players that we're getting
in is great, but I just want it to get back to, I want us to get back to being a good college program
in the local area that everybody You know, if they can do their A-levels and they want to
Jimmy Dack
play football, you know, I want to be able to offer that. You know, we're building some great
relationships with Team Sports Club in Peachy's Close. Now, you know, these guys are Sutton
fans. And they have been nothing short of fantastic for this academy.
Jimmy Dack
Very supportive. We train there on a daily basis. We've now built some ofces. We've got some
ofces there for the academy.
Jimmy Dack
And we're now building two classrooms for a college program. You know, that's, we started to
build up a 16 to 18 college program. We've also got the under 18s. Um, my, my second years of
my EFL league, uh, EFL program, we've still got nine of them.
Jimmy Dack
So we're still in the EFL league for one more season. And if, if we went back up next year, then,
you know, we can remain as a cat four club. in the EFL League, which is great. But my focus is
mainly trying to rebuild this college program.
Jimmy Dack
So it's a really good business model. And also, people probably don't realize that running a
football league program is very expensive. And this club has been so supportive towards me and
everything that we wanted to do. But I also know that it's a massive hole in their pockets.
Jimmy Dack
And I just want to try and build a program where we can start to generate players. And it's not
costing the club as much as it was, because I know that everything that I asked for, they
supported pretty much. But I don't think it's the right model for a club like us. I feel we should be
building a college program where You know, we're generating good players, and you'll generate
good players by having a good academy.
Jimmy Dack
And that's what we're aiming to do. You know, where they're getting their education, they're
getting their A-levels, they're also wanting to come because the coaching's good, the
environment's good. And that's where I want to sort of try to take this academy in a different
direction. And the icing on the cake is we've And I say we've, but Ben, our director, come up with a
fantastic idea about running an under-19s, which I thought at the time was a great idea, but how
are we going to do it?
Jimmy Dack
Now, you know, we are now six months into it and I couldn't be any more happier. We've just
entered into the National League. under-19 league, playing the Wokings and Aldershots and
Eastleys and Wildstones, you know, it's a really good competitive league on a Wednesday. And
I've signed 12 under-19s, so which would be third-year scholars now.
Jimmy Dack
And we've signed them from all different backgrounds. You know, I've got one lad that's coming
from West Ham, centre-forward. I mean, you know, he looks technically brilliant. He could be
anything.
Jimmy Dack
And I've also signed a centre-half from Middlesbrough. And these are all local boys, you know,
based in the area, which is even better. Signed a left-back from Millwall, but then I go and sign a
centre-half from Crawley Downs. who's got 30 non-league Step 4 or 5 games under his belt.
Jimmy Dack
So we've got a good blend of players that we've signed. And we've also brought them in with
some of the good players that we've had in our own academy, being Vinnie Tune, George Forster,
Vinnie Tune, George Forster, and God, I know there's another one up more, Liam Moore, sorry, and
obviously Junior would have been one of them but Steve has given him a full-time professional
contract which he deserves. So we got a good blend of sort of ex-players, well not ex-players,
second-year scholars coming up to third-year scholars and new recruits come in and We've
started pre-season and I've got to be honest, they look bloody really good.
Jimmy Dack
I couldn't be any more happier with the start we've had really.
Mike Dowling
Looking back at last season, what moments on the pitch have stood out as real sort of highlights
for you? Any specifc moments, player breakthroughs or anything like that?
Jimmy Dack
Yeah, I mean, all of them. All, you know, we could start from Liam Moore, captain in the team in
one of the Cup games. I think it might have been Nottingham Forest at home. Vinny Choo making
his frst team debut.
Jimmy Dack
Junior making his frst team debut, coming, starting and then clattering someone just before
halftime and having to come off because he was on one yellow card. I mean, you know, that's the
sort of guy he is, right? He just plays good. Also made Will Randall get
Mike Dowling
subbed as well.
Jimmy Dack
Yeah, exactly. He ended up coming off because he
Mike Dowling
was doing nothing.
Jimmy Dack
I mean, he is one tough, tough fella. And, you know, I'm constantly just trying to, if he can control
that side of his game, you know, I just, I don't know where he could go. He can certainly play
League One, in my opinion. I've never, as a trainer and as a person and somebody that wants to
be a footballer, in all my time in football, I don't think I've come across anyone with the desire that
he has.
Jimmy Dack
So, you know, I hope and pray that he gets everything he deserves in the game.
Mike Dowling
And every season has its ups and downs, and obviously there's a lot, there's various teams you're
looking at. What has been the biggest learning curve for you this year, and has there anything
that's already tweaked? I know you've made lots of changes. Have you had a chance to stop and
think, oh, I would have done that differently?
Jimmy Dack
Say the question again, because I
Mike Dowling
can't quite... I'm trying to... Every season, it's ups and downs. Yeah.
Mike Dowling
You've been super busy with lots of different teams, but what's been the biggest learning curve
this year for you or the Academy, either on the pitch or behind the scenes, whatever?
Jimmy Dack
I can't quite put my fnger on one. I don't really... There's learning curves in everything, you know.
What would I do better?
Jimmy Dack
There's loads I'd do better, you know. Yeah, I don't know. I can't really answer that question. I don't
think it's...
Jimmy Dack
I don't think... Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to get something for you to answer your question. That's
fne, don't worry. What's the learning curve from what I've seen?
Jimmy Dack
Nothing. nothing at all. Just just keep just keep working hard. And yeah, I don't know.
Jimmy Dack
I don't know how to answer that question,
Mike Dowling
really. Fine. Don't worry. And you've mentioned players have come sort of broken through, and
that's your aim.
Mike Dowling
But how do you how do you decide when a player is ready for that jump to the frst team? Um, did
I get chucked in for training? What? What?
Mike Dowling
What sort of makes that decision?
Jimmy Dack
Well, we're lucky, really, because, um, We've got a manager that actually gives boys a chance.
Now, I think we've all got to be mindful that it is hard being a manager. And, you know, you are
governed by your results. So you tend to play people who does what it says on the tin.
Jimmy Dack
You know what you get. You know what you get. I mean, listen, these boys are going away to
Rochdale's and, you know, Oldham's and they're tough games and you're throwing an 18 year old
kid in or even Ebb Suite away, you know, but we're lucky because we got a manager that actually
does that and he's prepared to put his name on the line and I admire that and respect that
because we just look at results, but we got to look at the bigger picture, you know, we're trying to
build something, you know, we've got a three or four year program.
Jimmy Dack
Steve give a 16-year-old kid his debut at Ebbsfeet. I don't think you'll see many managers in the
conference doing that. But he doesn't rant and rave about it, he just gets on with his job. So we've
got a little system now where Steve, Terry and myself, we're always communicating on a sort of
weekly, daily basis.
Jimmy Dack
But Terry's the sort of gap, the bridge. I deal with the academy, Steve deals with the frst team
and Terry's that bridge for the both of us really. And if he feels that we can step someone up, you
know, he'll support them and he'll do that. You know, he'll tell Steve when they're ready because
we don't want to put them in and they're not ready.
Jimmy Dack
and we kill them. But the one good thing about it is we bring them in to train and it's not just on a
one-off basis, it's on a regular basis. And once they start to get a feel and comfortable around the
frst team environment, because it is a big jump for them, you know, these are young lads
aspiring to be in footballers, you know. And when they see him on Saturday playing in the games
in the league, when it was a football league or the conference, you know, these boys, They watch
them on the touchline.
Jimmy Dack
Now all of a sudden they're training with them. It's a big step for them. So we're lucky because
we've got a manager that don't put them under pressure. He phases them in slowly.
Jimmy Dack
And when they play, they play because Steve believes in him and that's it. You know, it'll always be
his decision. But, you know, we as a club have just decided that that's the route we're going to
take and, you know, and results might differ. But, you know, we've got a manager that's prepared
to do that, which I think is a credit to what we're all trying to do.
Jimmy Dack
Listen, we all want to be back in the league, but it's going to take a bit of time to, you know, we've
got a really good group of players coming through. Um, and they're not, it's not going to happen
overnight. It's going to be a one season, two season, three season, um, model. But, um, we know
if we can keep this group together, we're going to be, we're going to be in a good position, I feel,
going forwards.
Jimmy Dack
And so does the manager and so does Terry.
Mike Dowling
That's a really good point, because it is obviously for me watching on the sides and everyone
watching on the sides, oh yeah, great, it's another youngster. I never really connected that. Hang
on, this is a big risk for Steve to put them on, even for 10 minutes or so, because a lot can go
wrong. I'm not saying it will, but a lot can go wrong in that 10 minutes.
Mike Dowling
So that's a really, really good point. Thank
Jimmy Dack
you. No, it is. And people know that, you know, I don't mean it, but Steve's name's on the attached
to Sutton United, you know, and they don't, when they look at the results, most people that pick up
the non-league or the Sunday papers or the internet, they just see results. Oh, you know, Sutton
drew and they drew, whatever.
Jimmy Dack
But there's more to it than that. You know, we've got two or three youngsters in and around the
squad, you know, people that actually really want to play for this football club. And, you know,
we've got a model and a process and You know, if we have, as long as we've got patience with it
all, I think that we'll be in a very, very good position in the next two to three seasons.
Mike Dowling
Well, that leads us on. You've mentioned or hinted a couple of times of some new sort of
programs, which do kind of seem quite ambitious. Talk us through some of them. There's the
under-19s, the post-16s.
Mike Dowling
There's quite a lot going on behind the scenes that people may have seen a tweet or two, but
don't really know the extent of it.
Jimmy Dack
Yeah, so I'll just give you a little bit of a broad insight. We're going to run an undercollege program
with 16 to 18 year olds that will be training every day at Cheam and they will be schooled at
Cheam as well. And that will they will be we're going to be running four teams next year And they
will be in one they will be running once they'll be in one team, but also We've also got an under-18
team that's going to be in the EFL program our last last year if we don't get promoted then we
come out of that and we've got an under-19 team now within all that If a college boy comes,
because they don't all go through the football league system and they're all like, you know, you do
get players that take a
Jimmy Dack
different route. Now, you know, obviously Killian was a massive example of that. You know, he
comes through the college program system and he's gone on to, you know, have a good career
so far in the league. And that's what we're doing.
Jimmy Dack
We're trying to phase players where we can adjust where they are in their playing. We might have
a really good under-16 and we might fast-track into the under-19s. We might have two or three
under-19s that are going to be playing in Steve's team. We don't know.
Jimmy Dack
We don't know. In the next three or four months, it will all start to unravel who's at where. Now,
most of the under-19s, we would possibly like to get out of luck. Um, there's lots of reasons
behind that.
Jimmy Dack
You know, we sent out Jack Taylor. Um, he went to Burgess Hill, then he went to Hornchurch, then
he went to Hampton. Um, and it was a bit of a process, really. He went out and got his experience
playing at these clubs, come back into Steve's team at Christmas time after really doing well at
Hampton and Richmond and Terry, myself, Steve Boyes, We monitor his progress.
Jimmy Dack
All our boys that go out on loan, we keep watching on a Saturday to see where they're at and get
constant feedback from managers. And we will get them out on loan. And then once they start
doing well out on loan, then once they've got their experience in men's football, because Don't
ever underestimate the challenges from being coming out of under 18 football into men's
football. It's huge.
Jimmy Dack
Now, not many make that step, Mike, straight away. Not many at all, unless you're Wayne Rooney.
But, you know, there isn't many. They always tend to go out on loan and then come back and go
out on loan.
Jimmy Dack
And that's the sort of model we're doing. We send them out on loan to get their experience, get a
few whacks in the face, learn how to jump a few tackles, learn how to win football matches.
Because a lot of academy football is all about development. Well, we're now in the business of
winning football matches.
Jimmy Dack
And that's why we have to send them out on loan, which is why we put this model together of
getting the best under-19s that have been released from clubs with our under-18s. And then we
can sort of start to manage them, get them out on loan. And then the ones that are doing really
well, we can pull them back. And Steve can have him in the frst team.
Jimmy Dack
We did it with Junior as well last year. We sent him out to Walton and Ursham. And he had a
season there, fabulous season. And he's come back.
Jimmy Dack
And he's in and around Steve's squad now. which is great.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I was going to ask about how do we keep tabs on them on loan? So you've already covered
that. A difcult one. How do you manage with the ones that aren't quite making it?
Mike Dowling
How do you support them if we're letting them go, essentially?
Jimmy Dack
Yeah, listen, it's always so hard letting players go. But we try to let them go. If we let them go,
We've let them go out on loan, we've circulated their name. Most of our second years last year
that didn't get an under 19 scholarship, they'd all been out on loan to other clubs and they've been
getting their experience elsewhere now.
Jimmy Dack
We still support the boys now. We've got players that was here the year before and we still speak
to them. Bev Little, who's our head of player care, you know, she literally makes sure that we
follow up on everything and make sure that there's always little gaps that we miss and Bev's
there to sort of make sure that we get the attention to detail. right and make sure that we follow
up on everything and make sure that we can support them in any way, shape or form.
Jimmy Dack
You never leave this club on bad terms and that's what I say. You leave this club and there's
always a chance you can come back. The door's always open to everyone.
Mike Dowling
Do you ever have a sneaky hope that they're all going to go away and prove you horribly wrong,
and that you've made a terrible mistake, and they're going to come back with their 100 caps
going, see, you should never let me know?
Jimmy Dack
Yeah, or prove us right, because they wouldn't have been at the club if they weren't good players.
So the trouble is, you can't sign everyone. And that's where it's hard for me, because I Because
I'm with these boys, and I don't say get emotionally, but you build up a relationship. So I treat
them all like my sons, and I treat them like I would want to be treated.
Jimmy Dack
One of the things I always say to all our boys that come into the club at 16, I always say to them,
look, you're coming into a football environment now. We can do this one or two ways. I treat you
like men, or I treat you like boys. And 99.9% of the time, they go, no, we want to be treated like
men.
Jimmy Dack
I said, OK, if you want to be treated like men, then act like one. And then straight away, you can
see straight away that something changes in them, because they go, well, actually, this isn't like
school. Because I don't want that environment. I want an environment where we're all respectful
of one another.
Jimmy Dack
Because I think if we haven't got that, we've got no foundation. So yeah, that's how we do it.
Mike Dowling
You've mentioned Jack and Junior a couple of times. Do you feel, I mean it's an obvious question
now saying it, Ala, that pathway shows that we've got a genuine way for kids to come from the
academy. Do you get to use that in your recruitment to say, hey, look, these two guys are an
example, and how useful is that that they've been successful thus far?
Jimmy Dack
Yeah, defnitely. And do you know what? When I signed these under-19s, they actually knew
themselves. They do their homework.
Jimmy Dack
These boys now, They do their homework and they look at what club do they feel that they could
get, they could be showcased and get where they all want to get to. And I think we've got a good
record of that. We've always had a good track record of players coming through. And we never
stop them.
Jimmy Dack
We never, we never, I mean, the name Sun United locally and, you know, in and around our area is
huge, right? And we need to lean on that a bit more. And, you know, and we do. I feel that we
really attract good players.
Jimmy Dack
I mean, last year we've sold, for two years, we sold a young 14 year old to Palace for, I can't say,
but it's quite a considerable amount. And we've sold two players this year from the Academy for,
you know, good money. Now, Not life-changing money, no, but it's something which tells me that
we're doing something right. I mean, we don't do it to earn money.
Jimmy Dack
We do it because I look at that and think, you know, we're doing something right as a football
club. And the one thing for me is when they leave, the parents always ring me up and thank me or
thank the club. You know, and even now, you know, I've still got one of the dads who we sold, one
of the players we sold to West End, and he's always ringing up. He cuts trees.
Jimmy Dack
He said, oh no, if you need anything, you know, just give me a call. You know, that's just the sort
of people we all are, you know. We try and help each other. And that's just, that's Sutton United.
Speaker 3
Excellent.
Mike Dowling
So there's obviously the training overlap where the lads go up and sort of help with the training.
They tell you how many bodies they need and so on. Is there any other kind of connections? Do
the senior players ever come to the academy sections to just be around the place, see the kids?
Jimmy Dack
Yeah, look, the one good thing about it is that we're slowly getting closer and closer to training,
nearer each other. You know, when I frst come in, The frst team were at Harlington and we was
at Cheam. Now, you know, you couldn't be any further away if you tried. Now, you know, bearing in
mind that most of these boys don't drive and stuff like that.
Jimmy Dack
But now, you know, where we're based at Cheam or David Weir and the frst team are training at
Tooting, you know, we can have that better relationship. And also as well, the boys do all their
gym at the David Weir. And even today, it was really pleasing for me because I was watching all
the frst team boys come over and start to integrate with all our boys, you know, and a lot higher
on such and such and introducing themselves. And I thought that was great, you know, just
seeing 40, 50 boys or young men all together.
Jimmy Dack
And I just think that's what it's all about. You know, it shouldn't be a, it's not that we choose to
have a divide, but because of where we trained, It was harder, but now, obviously, Terry and Steve
and Ben, who was instrumental in making sure we got back into the area. Yeah, once we started
bringing them all together, you can see that there is a stronger togetherness now. And when our
boys go into the changing rooms, they don't look around and think, oh my God, I shouldn't be
here, you know, imposter syndrome.
Jimmy Dack
They actually feel part of it, which is great. Yeah,
Mike Dowling
I know all about that. The big fella back, he did his testimonial,
Jimmy Dack
leaving
Mike Dowling
Sutton, and within a few days, you're like, nah, we'll have you back. What's he going to bring to the
group?
Jimmy Dack
Well, the big fella, to be fair, I was trying to get him in last year because, you know, He's a great
guy, frst and foremost. And he just loves the club. And I just feel that you can't have enough
people around you like that who believe in the same thing as you do. So we managed to have a
good chat with Dundo towards the end of the season.
Jimmy Dack
And I'm delighted we've got him on board to sort of work with the college boys and the whole
academy, really, because you know, he just backs up all our values that we have in the academy,
all my staff. Also, you know, there is other people, obviously Dundo is great, we're delighted to
have him in, but we brought Sid, who's my nephew, which, you know, he's a fantastic coach. He's
been working in the academy for two years now. He's a B licence coach and You know, he's a
really good coach and obviously he's been over, he's been over sort of look, not look, that's not
the right word, but sort of guided by Glenn Nichols, who's my head of coaching, who's, you know,
who's a fantastic coach.
Jimmy Dack
And he, you know, he drives, drives everything on the training ground and makes my life a lot
easier.
Mike Dowling
Can't be having that.
Jimmy Dack
I come into this job and it was supposed to be more football based and football related. Well, I've
actually learned how to do spreadsheets and do more admin than I've ever done. So the job that
I've taken on it completely wasn't the job that I come in to do. So I've had to try and build the
business and the structure of the academy and I'm feeling now that we're in a really, really good
place to try and sort of push on a bit.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, some people I would have sympathy for, but you knew all about Sutton United, so you knew
what you were signing on for was never
Jimmy Dack
going to
Mike Dowling
be what you were actually doing.
Jimmy Dack
It's the one thing, you know, we stutter over the line and we get there and it's not through like the
want and desire, you know, everybody seems to pull together. And that's the one good thing
about this place. We might fall short in some things, When your back's against the wall, everyone
digs in for you. And I think that's what makes us a good club, really.
Mike Dowling
I mean, there was, I think in our frst season in the EFL, obviously a lot of attention on us. The
academy side, I think it was a cup match, and there was a few people coming down just to see.
And they were fascinated to see that Bruce was doing the car park duties. and
Jimmy Dack
like collecting tickets or he's doing the, when you go on the microphone before games and stuff
like that. Yeah, yeah. You couldn't make it up. That don't happen at many clubs.
Jimmy Dack
So
Mike Dowling
what, so we're heading into the new season, what's your kind of biggest hurdles at the moment or
have you covered all bases? Is it, I mean you've got recruitment, I know there's been some leaving
due to different statuses and are you kind of ahead of everything now or are you still thinking, oh
I still need to solve problems A, B, C?
Jimmy Dack
Yeah I mean look, It's been such a big turnaround. We've lost an academy. We're now building
another academy. Yeah, it's been challenging, losing 110 boys where you had to say, thanks very
much, but there's no more football next year.
Jimmy Dack
That was really hard. That was my hardest challenge. Yeah, because they don't know. They just
want to play football.
Jimmy Dack
They don't know what, you know, the reasons behind everything and stuff like that. So yeah, that
was quite challenging for me. But yeah, I just, we've got a lot of, I feel that we've got a lot of, got a
lot of our ducks all lined up because we're going into, because we're going into a little bit of new
territory. I genuinely, I feel that we've planned well.
Jimmy Dack
Recruitment's been way and beyond better than where I thought it would be for the under-19s. I'm
really delighted with that. And actually, if anyone wants to come and see him, we've got a game
against Leverett on Saturday. But look on the website, we can put all the games we got.
Jimmy Dack
We got a few games, midweek games, I think Reigns part foul. Who else? Corinthian casuals. But
please come down and have a look, because there's some really good, talented boys to look at.
Jimmy Dack
And I feel it's exciting times. But yeah, honestly, we've got, we've put things in place. We've got so
many moving parts at the moment. I'm just taking, taking everything sort of a week or two at a
time.
Jimmy Dack
Hopefully, you know, we get through the preseason unscathed. Then we go into the under 18s
EFL League. Then we've got the college boys coming in from, I bet you wish you didn't ask me
this. That's fne.
Jimmy Dack
All the college boys coming in from August for their pre-season, then they start school on the
frst week of September and their games program and the under-19s start in September. So, so
much going on, so much going on. And, you know, like always, we'll get through it and we'll all be
stronger for it. And, you know, we'll just keep running with the punches, as they say.
Jimmy Dack
I
Mike Dowling
have to teach you some conditional formatting for your spreadsheet so you can have all the
colours popping up. So, put you on the spot a little bit. A question you obviously knew was going
to come, but what's the current crop of talent? Who is going to be the ones breaking through this
season, do we think?
Jimmy Dack
Um, well, you know what we're talking about, we're talking about under 19s, we're talking about
under 18s, and we're talking about... Are you
Mike Dowling
going
Jimmy Dack
to start sneaking
Mike Dowling
into the frst team on the bench, or...?
Jimmy Dack
Um, if I'm honest with you, and I... We have got 12, well, we've got 10 signed players now that, and
I'm going to sign two more, we've got four trialists in at the moment, and I need to sign two
wingers out of there, but... Any of them 12, I honestly believe could possibly step into Steve's
squad. I mean, you know, if, if Steve needed them, you know, they look like they've got a lot of
ability, you know, I'm not saying they'll go and play, but I think that come Christmas time, if Steve
needed any, any of them, you know, he was struggling with numbers
Jimmy Dack
or injuries or whatever, you know, I honestly feel that there's quite a few, if not all of them, that I
would put my name to and say, look, if they're all right for you, you know, I do think that they're a
good bunch. Only time will tell. I'm saying it now, pre-season, you know, will that decision be
different at Christmas time? Possibly, possibly.
Jimmy Dack
But what I've seen and what we've recruited Terry, myself and Steve Boyce. And Steve, obviously,
he's played a part in that. What we've all recruited, I feel, will be a really good addition to what
we're doing. Yeah.
Mike Dowling
Excellent. Right. You'll be pleased to know, lastly, and you've hinted at a little bit of this, but what
is your takeaway message for the supporters ahead of the new season? What would you like
from Sutton United fans?
Jimmy Dack
Come and support us, frst and foremost. Come and get a feel for what these young crop are
coming through. So come and watch us. We're going to play on a Wednesday afternoons down at
Cheam or David Weir, but it'll be more down at Cheam.
Jimmy Dack
Come and watch us and see what we've got to deliver. And then they can put a name and a face
to them when they're in and around the frst team. Because I think it's exciting times for the club. I
really do.
Jimmy Dack
And let's not forget, we've got some really good second year scholars. Charlie Bell, Bobby
Shergar, Dan Irpin, the list is endless. Reeve Zee, who's been in and around the frst team. The list
is endless.
Jimmy Dack
Ned, I just think, just come and get a feel for what we're doing. Because when we play against all
these bigger clubs, These boys, they never fall short, you know, they're competing on all fronts. I
mean, you know, I think that there's some good times ahead for the whole Academy.
Mike Dowling
Excellent, that is perfect. So with that, I'm going to wrap up this episode of Sutton Podcast. As
always, we appreciate everyone's earfuls and feedback. Follow, like, share on all social medias at
Sutton Podcast, subscribe.
Mike Dowling
And yeah, any questions for Jimmy, pass them to me and I'll pass them on. Or if you've got his
details, you can always contact him direct. He probably doesn't want that. As always, thank you
to our sponsors, Lucky Star Gin.
Mike Dowling
Thank you for listening and thanks to yourself, Jimmy, for your time. Hope you've enjoyed this
episode of Sutton Podcast. Take care and we will catch up soon. Bye-bye.
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