We Were in Control… Until We Weren’t
Welcome back to another episode of the Sutton United Talk Time podcast.
If you’re a regular listener, you know the drill. If you’re new here, you’re very welcome as we navigate the highs and lows of life in the National League.
This week, Mike is joined by Neil to dissect a match that felt all too familiar for the Amber and Chocolate faithful. From hospitality chats with opposition executives to a debut goal and another late collapse, this one somehow managed to capture the entire Sutton season in 90 minutes.
There is pride in what we are building… but there is also a growing frustration that we just cannot shake.
Mike Dowling
Hello and welcome to another episode of Such United Talk Time on podcast. It's the Sutton podcast in association with Lucky Star Gin. I'm Mike and I'm your host. Joining me today is Neil.
Mike Dowling
A very welcome return to you, Neil. And if you're a new listener, You're very, very welcome, and if you're a regular listener, thank you as always. Talking of listeners, I was in hospitality yesterday, I paid for it, it wasn't a freebie, and on our table was the CEO of Altringham, and I went to just big up young Erin, who's given me some content over the last, well, couple years, I think, and she goes, yep, I know Erin, absolutely brilliant, she's so good, so good, and she said, in fact, I've listened to her podcast a couple times.
Mike Dowling
So, let's behave ourselves today, Neil, because Sam McKenzie may well be listening. We love hearing from you. Join the conversation, stay connected, share your thoughts on all episodes, chat with other fans and let us know what you're thinking with the social media at Sutton Podcast. Likes and shares are really, really appreciated.
Mike Dowling
They do help us get in front of more eyes and ears. And big shout out to everyone who does that on a regular basis for us. Neil, how have you been?
Neil
I've been fine. Thank you, Mike. Enjoying the sunshine, painting my garden fence.
Mike Dowling
Lovely. That's probably more exciting than yesterday, but we will persevere. So let's go over a little bit on the lineup. It's a bit kind of difficult to go for in a moment, although there's very few players at the club.
Mike Dowling
But Dan Irpins made his first full league debut. How did you feel about that? That's obviously a nice positive.
Neil
So, particularly keen to see him play a full 90 minutes because the three or four times I think he's featured, he's never really let us down. He looks very assured. He's got his long throw. Could be another Jack Taylor.
Mike Dowling
Absolutely. Another off the assembly line almost. Again, I think he's 17. It's mad, I've said it quite a lot throughout the season, so we've got...
Mike Dowling
We've got Junior 18, possibly coming up 19, I don't know what his actual birthday is. Charlie Bell, who I think is only just 18, and then Dan Irvins is 17. And they're quite significant players for us at the moment, which is absolutely insane. But the first half, how were you...
Mike Dowling
I mean, first half was great, let's be honest. A debut, well, first goal for Junior. First of all, talk us through that, that was like a very spectacular goal. The wrong end for us, but good goal nonetheless.
Neil
I couldn't actually see a scoring, but I'd said to those standing around me, we're going to need them to make a mistake. And it was a sort of Sutton-esque type mistake between their keeper and their centre-back. And it fell to Francis. Probably eight times out of 10, it goes into Rosie, but he caught it beautifully.
Neil
So it was very well taken. And I'm pleased for him because he has completely run his socks off in an unfamiliar position, almost as a lone striker since he came to us. So he deserved that for all his efforts. So I was really pleased with that.
Neil
He took it well.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I'm sure we'll talk about Aggie's interview a bit more, but there was, I think he said it was the most difficult chance he's had since coming in. Sorry, the easiest chance. He's had more difficult chances that he's missed. But it felt positive.
Mike Dowling
Whilst we weren't making a huge amount of chances, we felt, to me, looked comfortable, in control. Were you at the first half or halftime, were you feeling that, oh, you know what, we could do this here, or did you feel like something's going to happen?
Neil
Ultrium didn't really look as if they were going to pose a threat. So equally thinking we were only going to get a goal if they made a mistake. Ditto, I thought they were going to get a goal if we made a mistake.
Mike Dowling
Now, did you use the word if, or did you use the word when?
Neil
I did actually say if, I think. Even though I had predicted that we would lose, because that seems to be, when I predict we're going to lose, we draw a win. When I predict we're going to win, we lose. So, that's psychology.
Mike Dowling
The players don't know what you predict, you're aware of that.
Neil
Yeah, but, you know, for gods or whatever it is, you know, I'm terribly superstitious, Mike. I'm like you, you know, cross the road by this lamppost.
Mike Dowling
Oh, I changed it yesterday. I thought it hasn't been working, so I went earlier and it still didn't work. um yes so two goals very very quickly um just all right we'll take some positives here i mean i did put it out there who the danger man main was and one of them was mentioned as ollie crankshaw and he scored twice um but i mean how did you feel about the goals were you frustrated have you seen them back um were they easily avoidable
Neil
You should never concede a goal from a free kick that goes through the wall. And it went through the wall. It went between Prouty and Bez.
Mike Dowling
So, you know, it split them down the middle. I think it went, as it was alluded to, I think, Simps a turn. And it went kind of where Simps was standing.
Neil
It was Prouts in the middle of the wall, number 14. Well, I'm sure it was.
Mike Dowling
I'll have another look.
Neil
Simps was not in the wall. I'm sure when I looked, and it was Prouty, so Prouty turns, looks at Chris Haig. There's much to say, are we in the right place? Then turns round, and then the ball gets blasted right down the middle between 14 and 39, which is...
Mike Dowling
Okay, maybe I've watched it.
Neil
Brutes and bears. I'm sure that's right. I know I'm old and the eyesight's failing, but that's what I thought.
Mike Dowling
Okay. I think it was like three, four minutes when they got the tails up and we just... Is it fragility? What is it that...
Mike Dowling
Why are we conceding goals very quickly in quick succession? I mean, we had this last season as well with completely different players. Why are we conceding these goals so, so quickly one after the other?
Neil
I think it's, you know, the heads drop and it just takes them a while to get back in their heads that, you know. get back to doing the things that they've been told to do. At that early in the game, it's not going to be a physical thing. They are fit.
Neil
I don't think it's a, tired, we haven't trained, that sort of thing. I think it's a mental frigidity, a culmination of the season. We've got a head, we've let in a goal, we're probably going to let another one in. So it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Neil
I think they've got that in their heads. I mean, and, and then we go and learn another goal straight away due to, you know, poor disorganization and altering them were on an update. They changed their shape. We hadn't, we hadn't adapted our game plan to their changing shape because I think they bought on three substitutes all at once.
Mike Dowling
Yeah.
Neil
So, you know, again, that's probably the youth not, not having that ability to adapt to a change in what's in front of you.
Mike Dowling
But is that where we need to use the PK Avit? And just when the ball comes anywhere near anyone, especially when we've just conceded, just get it out, go away from our goal for a little while until we settle down.
Neil
But the second goal didn't come from that, it was from our attacking play. Simpson did a backheel which, had it come off, would have been somebody rushing towards the box. They broke very quickly down our left-hand side, ball across, and it was Pruti not marking the man, marking the space, which was what happened in the Yagi interview, though he didn't name him. And that's where they scored the goal.
Neil
And we've been caught by that quick counter-attacking goal multiple times, down either side.
Mike Dowling
Yeah.
Neil
In the past, it was down our right.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, no, I didn't mean that the goal came from our playing it out. It's just like if you for five, six minutes, you just don't even that long, just boot the ball out, get your time to settle. Maybe the keeper goes and has one of the magic injuries that go down just until you can then readjust to those substitutes and so on. I know everyone hates to keep it going down, but it is something that happens.
Neil
Yeah, possibly, but you know,
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I suppose hindsight is wonderful.
Neil
Yeah, hindsight is a wonderful thing. It was a silly free, the free kick they scored was a silly foul, probably an unnecessary foul, which we seem to have committed against us and never get given, but always when we do it, they do get given. I know that's a confirmation bias, and it's probably not true, and there's a bit of sour grapes, but it does seem like It did seem like a referee yesterday was happy to book more of their players than ours. I think we only had one player booked yesterday, which was quite a treat, and I think they had five booked.
Neil
And possibly their manager or one of their assistants.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, on that incident, one of their players got booked for dissent, but a video has emerged that they may have had a point about the foul they were claiming for. That was a red card in the semi-final. Yeah. yeah and and it was a penalty because it happened in the box yeah it was not even one you could turn around and go oh we just he turned and accidentally clashed into him it was a different definite um movement towards the player with the elbow which was
Mike Dowling
is is not it's not what we do um don't like that at all But yeah, I think their player got booked for dissent on that because that's what their fans are saying is, oh look, this player got booked for dissent and so did our manager at the point of this where it should clearly have been a foul. How is this happening? I mean, the danger men were called, Erin did flag up Jimmy Knowles and Ollie Crankshaw, and Crankshaw got both.
Mike Dowling
Is it, I mean, you know what's coming, but is it, how do we stop it? I mean, if you know where the danger's coming from, surely there's a, there's a, there's a, gotta be some kind of in place, or is it just a case of, yeah, sometimes you just can't stop the inevitable?
Neil
If the management get the team set up right, then in theory, that should negate the threat. If you've got the players or the setup to do it, but sometimes very good players are very good. So it doesn't matter what you do. They're going to come up with something really, really good, or the management have got the plan, but the players don't implement it.
Mike Dowling
Yeah.
Neil
Yeah.
Mike Dowling
I'm not sure if this can be classed as a positive, but Andy Jackson said in the Facebook group, how can anyone say watching Sutton is boring? The creativity we show in losing games from winning positions is nothing short of legendary at this point. Funny, but accurate, would you agree?
Neil
It is, yeah. Our ability to shoot ourselves in the foot is becoming phenomenal. It's the last two seasons. Well, actually, I'd say it started in our last EFL season, because that was when the beginnings of it started, because there were one or two games that got away from us that we lost to last minute bits of stupidity.
Mike Dowling
I think it goes back a little bit further than that to the second half of the second season. But we have had two different managers since. Loads of different players. How can we be making the same mistakes as a club?
Mike Dowling
It's almost impossible is no one left from those those periods Yeah, it's not the club.
Neil
I think it's the players that you managed to recruit. All right, fair enough, okay The right players you hopefully it won't happen.
Mike Dowling
Yeah so I mean, there's not much more to say about the match, to be fair. You could almost listen to any of our losses recently, and you could piece together a fairly decent podcast with a match without actually talking about Aldrin. But we did have the Player Awards, the Post-Match Awards, last night. I can't remember, were you at that one?
Mike Dowling
I was wondering around. So, how did you sort of, do you agree with all of those? I mean, we had Jake Taylor who joined us in November, getting Player of the Year.
Neil
Yeah, I'm glad he got something because I think he has. I thought Jake might get the Player's Player. I thought Charlie might be the young player, even though he's only part of the season. So in effect, everybody got something that I thought, but the different award, and Charlie and Junior, I would have given it to Charlie rather than Junior.
Mike Dowling
Really? I mean, Junior's played the whole, I mean, 40, 41 games he's played this season. Which isn't a lot, and also he's missed a few for various reasons, Junior. Yes.
Neil
Well, I think the reasons that Juniors missed a couple of matches, that should take away for a bit. Who has committed the greater crimes?
Mike Dowling
Yes, so Jake was Player of the Year, Sims was Players Player of the Year, which is obviously the one voted by the players, Junior Young Player, Goal of the Season for Sims, I mean...
Neil
That was the one I voted for. Against head double, they must hate seeing him on the leaf against him.
Mike Dowling
The supporters player in the year one was interesting. He went to Kai again, only came in late and left. But do you agree there? I mean, he was a big, big difference and made a big contribution to us.
Neil
Yeah, arguably, he's been the player of the season in terms of his impact, even perhaps more than Jake and Sims. For such a young player, we've had three brilliant loans in recent times. You've got to say Isaac Laffey is probably the best loan we've ever had. Finlay and Kai, and I would argue that Kai had more impact even than Finlay.
Neil
Okay.
Mike Dowling
What about Charlie that almost kept us up? Was it Charlie?
Neil
I've forgotten his name.
Mike Dowling
Yes. He went to Walsall in the end. yeah and I've had the black I've had a brain blur and I forgot his name yeah but yeah I mean it was a nice event obviously quite subdued because home form hasn't been great and we lost the game again but the players were all there signing things for the kids having chats with people so they were doing what what they had to But the big one is Aggie's post-match.
Mike Dowling
He didn't hold back. Now, they didn't name players, but he was clearly frustrated. What do you think, kind of, overall of that interview? If you haven't heard it yet, please do listen to it.
Neil
He's obviously very frustrated with, as I said, with Prouts. So I think that was, you know, the player that he sort of singled out, seemed to me to single out. He's just frustrated. You know, it's obvious he was very emotional.
Neil
He was very down. Seems to be threatening a mass clear, you know, a mass clear out. And he reiterated in what he sort of said pretty much on after Tuesdays, inferring that the vast majority of the players that you're seeing in the squad now will not be here next season, for whatever reason, because he doesn't want them. Or somebody's going to come in, you know, because they're out of contract or offer us money to take them away.
Neil
So, yeah, you probably. Not very many of that of the team that were on the pitch yesterday will be with us for various reasons, I think, next year. Yeah, I mean.
Mike Dowling
There's lots you can go with that. Sometimes when you hear these interviews, you're like, whoa, hang on a minute. Have you lost the dressing room? Where you're starting to have a pop of your players, but as you say, he's probably already decided on those players that are staying anyway.
Mike Dowling
So does that matter? Does it show he cares and set standards? I mean, is there a downside to having a little bit of a frustrated rant?
Neil
If you do it earlier in the season when there's something on the line, I don't think it works. I think now it can't do any harm. And I think he's got to get it out there otherwise if he bottles it up too much.
Mike Dowling
Well, yeah, I mean, he did also mention, and I do feel he has a point where the job he's had to do here, although he hasn't won anything, He obviously has a feeling over the standard of the players, because he straight away was talking about their fitness when he arrived. He was talking about the recruitment, and he's got a load of amount on loan. He said this is probably one of his biggest achievements, ignoring playoffs, title winnings, all the rest of it in his career.
Mike Dowling
Had you thought about that prior? I mean, we've kind of limped to 17th, 18th, which again, being harsh.
Neil
If you think about our last three managers, Matt Gray's target was to keep us in the National League. Failed by getting us promoted. So, you know, he kept us in the National League, but not in the way we expected.
Mike Dowling
Successful failure.
Neil
Yeah. Steve Morrison was brought in to get us out of the... was brought in to keep us in the Football League and he almost got us across you know across the line and had a little bit of the alluded to if things had gone our way or we hadn't shot ourselves in the foot he would have done it yep because we did from a pretty hopeless position we did take it to the last game of the season so you know he virtually did it sadly i think the problem with morrison is he had his ideas but i don't think he was effectively could He hadn't got the
Neil
right players that could take on board what he wanted to do and he couldn't get his message across and he obviously lost the dressing room and lost the you know lost the confidence of the of the board Aggie came in and his task was to keep us in the league He's done it. It was a pretty hopeless Position. Yeah, and he didn't have an empty checkbook to do it with.
Mike Dowling
No.
Neil
He had to work within a very, you know, small, well, you know, he had to use his black book, his contacts. So Jack Taylor, you know, so in effect, he didn't have an awful lot to work with and largely what he bought in has, has worked not universally, but you know, Boyer, Jennings, Yeah, I mean, Jake, you know, you talk about the things have worked.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. I mean, he had to, he didn't, he said he didn't have much to work with. He had to, I think he had probably had to get rid of a lot of those people on out on loan to make some wiggle room in the budget. Because again, I know we're not big payers, but if you've got a big squad, that all adds up.
Mike Dowling
So again, I don't know anyone's actual wage or anything, but that's going to all add up with some of those players. But on the context of the interview, who do you think that message was for? Do you think it was for the individual player, the general dressing room standards, the board as a cry for help, the fans, or for himself just to get the frustration out, or a mix?
Neil
I think the players will already know whose number is up. They may not have been told in, you know, in as many words, but I suspect, you know, they know, and I suspect the players amongst themselves know which of their colleagues, friends is for the chop. I suspect he has already, he would have already had a conversation with the board to what's my budget going to be. This is what I want to, you know, this is my shopping list.
Neil
You know, these players, you know, these players are going to go, these are our targets. I want a smaller squad. The mathematics being that if you've got a smaller squad, you potentially can pay a bit more than having a bigger squad. yeah paying a bit less it has its risks because you know if you get injuries and that you're in trouble but he's relying on the academy to produce a couple of um you know emergency cover players which has happened this season hopefully they're there to do it again
Neil
next season so and i think it was as much for the fans to essentially say you know you've stuck by us you have had to put up with some up what's on the field. So from that point of view, I think it was as the other people already know, I think it was much a sort of reassurance to the fans that there is hope. You're not going to have to put up with this next season. And because his statement at the awards thing, I think that basically he's going to have to fall on his sword if he doesn't actually get up to it.
Neil
But he has said, we will be in the top seven next season.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I mean, that's what I was going to move on to, is because maybe naively, when he arrived, he was like, right, I've had success everywhere, we're going to get into the playoffs. He even told Claire that he can come into the office and cry if it doesn't happen. then obviously he's coming out, I mean this is slightly different coming out and saying I want to win something so sorry senior cup I'm going to target and then more recently he sort of said look there's no reason why we can't finish top half and he kind of all just went pear shaped after that and now he's come up with another strong message Do you think that's wise or do you think he should have gone with the will be better next season?
Mike Dowling
Or does he just not have the patience for this slow build? He just wants it now.
Neil
I think he was doing what a lot of our lovely politicians do. They promise the earth and they say what they think people want to hear. And then because we vote for them and they don't necessarily deliver it. So, you know, I think it was a, you know, it probably, I think it was folly really to say it, but I'm glad he said it because that's, That's what I'm hoping for for next season.
Neil
So I think he's come up with what he's thinking the fans want to hear. And I think it's what the board want to hear. So from that point of view, it's a politician's type statement.
Mike Dowling
But it hopefully won't come back unhaunted because if we get off to a bad start, next year people might say well hang on you you told us this is definitely gonna happen um obviously i'm not i won't get off to a bad start we're gonna turn this home form around and um going to like going ring lane will be a fortress if i could say it properly that would have been nice um so On next season, we're not doing a season review yet. Just your thoughts here, but we've had the season we got, the last season in the EFL, ripped up the whole team, lots of new players. The relegation season, ripped up the whole team, lots of new players.
Mike Dowling
We can do it again. We can get more, I mean, we got quite a few players last season as well. So it looks like we're gonna be doing that again. do you do you think this can be sustainable because um i know everyone knows we're a small club and we're more and more reliant on on one person gary's pockets do we do we have the money to keep doing this um what's going to happen how how much
Mike Dowling
do we gamble do we put everything on on red and hope for the best or um do we have to sustain it
Neil
I don't know, you know, you know, we need to sustain it because I want to have a football club that we can moan about for all the years I've got left on the planet, not to find that we're a club that disappears and having to be a Phoenix club, you know, down in, uh, you know, lower than Sutton Coalfield, you know, so, um, so
Mike Dowling
Next game, Boringwood. I mean, do we need to target, do we need to say who the danger man might be? Because he's scored, I think, 50 goals since he joined them, and he was at a different club prior to that. In fact, I didn't even check what they did yesterday.
Mike Dowling
He may have scored more than 50 goals. 33 for the season prior to yesterday. Our striker who didn't get a chance in that rush. How do you see that game going?
Mike Dowling
I don't even know to be honest. I don't even know What they need from it. Do they need anything yet?
Neil
But yeah, you tell me how you feel like I think they're guaranteed to finish in the position that they're in actually, so they may They are indeed.
Mike Dowling
They may rest.
Neil
So I think they may be a little bit I foot off the gas. Yes, so their foot off the gas, so that they are going to finish fourth. So therefore, they'll be trying not to get injured. But the last time we played a team we thought would have their foot off the gas and try not to, we of course lost, wasn't it?
Neil
Which was Grimsby. Grimsby, yes, just before their Man United game. So yeah, so I don't think we can read anything into that. If Matt Rush plays, he's guaranteed to score because You know, that is the law of sod.
Neil
So I have exceedingly low expectations for the game.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how many will go, mostly because it's Boreham Wood and people have various petty grudges against Boreham Wood. Well, not even petty, so a lot of grudges against Boreham Wood, and also there's nothing really for either team to play for. A bit of pride, as Aggie said, but I don't think any of the people who go away don't feel pride because they've seen some outstanding performances. But how do you see it going?
Mike Dowling
Do you think it's going to be a beach mode game? Or do you think that rocket from Maggie is going to get a performance out of the players one last time?
Neil
I think it will be a bit of a beach game. I think it potentially will be a draw. Yeah. You know, I mean, a bit of a, you know, a bit of a not much.
Neil
I suspect most people won't go, because they'll be watching York and Rochdale on the...
Mike Dowling
I mean, I'd like a win, because that'd put us on 50 points, and it'd be nice to tick that off, to go, well, it might have taken us to the last game, but we got there. So, yeah, I'd very much like a win. Right, the Prediction League. I'm going to just quickly run through this.
Mike Dowling
There's a bit of drama. um hasn't actually affected an awful lot i will be honest um but uh charm has pointed out to me that he predicted a game as a correct result and he only got um five points not not the seven points or eight points whatever it is and i'm like and I'm like hang on a minute let me have a little look and it turns out that since mid-December the calculation wasn't working for the maximum points which I don't know if anyone actually got an awful lot but I've changed it now and readjusted and it was what it was one of the parameters was not adding up I think it was their goals or something like that wasn't wasn't adding up correctly and therefore affecting max scores so i did all that changed it um hasn't actually affected the main i mean there might be some things
Mike Dowling
for other places but the main point is that um the winner is up the use because los gandos cannot catch them now um and they are um 193 points for up the use and 183 for los gandos next one down is 178 with chris h and so I think it's still seventh.
Neil
No, you're sixth, so you must be delighted that there was a change.
Mike Dowling
Oh, hang on, what's going on here? Why has my screen gone blank? There we go, you're back. So yeah, so well done to, I think it's Ben, but I will double check who, but up the ooze wins, I will contact him and arrange his cup.
Mike Dowling
um but next season due to the um ongoing this is supposed to be very low admin and i keep going oh for christ's sake i've now got to do 11 games in a go um is going to change and i had a little chat with someone called uh nimbus play nimbus and they do a um fantasy football league Which again, you're like, oh, hang on a minute, that sounds a bit naff. But actually, it can be each week as a standalone. And what you do is, we can concentrate on just Sutton games, and you pick two players from each side across the four positions, goalkeeper, defence, midfield, attack.
Mike Dowling
And you have to choose two from each side, so you'd have to have four players, two and two. and then you can pick one more player as like the star player or you can double up on one of your current players and they get double points and you get points for all sorts of different things goals, assists, tackles then minus points for yellow cards red cards which is a bit dramatic for us and you can see it I believe in game in their app so you can kind of see where you are and see how many points you got and we can do it as a each week a new team or each week a new league so if there's one game in the in the week there's one game if it's two games it's the two games and also you can do it over the whole season and they have assured me there's zero admin from my side so it should make it
Mike Dowling
more interesting and people have a chance to win on a more regular basis than just oh i see i'm out of it now and therefore stop playing because There is a drop-off. I even stopped doing my entries because I knew I wasn't going to get very far. So it should be a bit more fun and hopefully going to get a chance to test it for the World Cup. So keep an eye out and I'll let everyone know.
Mike Dowling
So Neil, we're looking forward to one more game and then a nice long summer. What are you hoping for from the summer? Are you hoping for early business or do you not care whether it's early just as long as we get the right people?
Neil
I'm going to desperately miss football because I'm that sad. I'd hope that there's something, a bit of news or something sort of every week just to sort of keep me just topped up.
Mike Dowling
Of course, because they're not doing the pitch again this year, you won't have a chance to be checking on the pitch and seeing what's going on there. The camera grown. Comparing it with my lawn. Yeah, grass cam.
Mike Dowling
We want grass cam back, is what we want. Okay, we're going to wrap it up. It was a game that we didn't quite control it, but we were ahead, we had a good chance. It was a non-game once we took the lead and we managed to lose in a 3-4 minute schedule.
Mike Dowling
But you know what? The post-match interview probably tells us, as Neil has alluded to, a lot more about next season than this one. We may have to just bite our teeth and draw a line again and say, OK, we'll try again, we go again. But we are going to wrap up this episode.
Mike Dowling
Thanks for everyone for listening, for your attention and your feedback. Please like, follow, share, give us the thumbs up on all socials. Don't forget to subscribe and give us a review if you want as well. As always, thank you to our sponsors Lucky Star Gin, big thank you to Neil, and thank you for listening.
Mike Dowling
Hope you've enjoyed this episode of Something Podcast. Take care and we will catch up soon.
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