"We moved the ball well, but sometimes it’s about doing the basics right."
What does it take to strike the perfect balance between flair and fundamentals? That’s the question at the heart of this episode of Sutton United Talk Time on Podcast. Joining me, Mike Dowling, are Paul and Dan, two insightful fans with a knack for dissecting Sutton United’s gameplay and fan experience. From strategic nuances to fan engagement, this episode has it all.
Mike Dowling
00:11 - 00:28
Hello and welcome to another episode of Sustainable United Talk Time on podcast. I said it was no more, but that was only 2024. There's more in 2025. I'm very, very sorry to tell everyone. We are in association with Lucky Star Gin, as always. I'm your host, and with me on today's panel, we have got Dan
Dan
00:28 - 00:28
and Paul.
Mike Dowling
00:29 - 00:55
Love hearing from you, Enjoy all the messages. Some of the messages over my Christmas Santa outfit was mixed response. Some said I looked very plump and some said I look too skinny. So I'm not really sure what to take this. But do like, share, follow all the other stuff on social media. It boosts my ego because I definitely need my ego boosting so please carry on doing that. Paul, didn't see you yesterday, how have you been?
Paul
00:55 - 01:10
I don't know, yeah, no I was just saying to Dan I didn't make the game. Now before everyone has a go at me about being fair weather, there was other things at play but it was Andy I couldn't make it but I did watch the game on the telly. So yeah, good Christmas. That's why
Mike Dowling
01:10 - 01:19
I didn't see you yesterday. Dan, let's leave the wet weather for a moment. Have your eyes recovered from the coat?
Dan
01:20 - 01:32
Oh yeah I was a bit it puzzled me because I was expecting the yellow and it was a completely different was it was that a Christmas I meant to ask was that a Christmas present? I thought it was, looked like it.
Mike Dowling
01:32 - 01:36
Got me a brand new iconic coat because the other 1 is falling apart
Dan
01:36 - 01:40
and the other 1 didn't stand out enough I don't think.
Mike Dowling
01:40 - 01:47
No, I think this 1 is going to make sure people can see me. Although, worryingly, I saw 2 other people wearing yellow coats. I was like, oh, that's my thing. Stop doing that.
Paul
01:47 - 01:50
I assume it's framed Mike in the 1898 club.
Mike Dowling
01:51 - 02:18
Well, at least 1 person suggested I raffle it. Yeah. 1 person then also said, well, you might want to get some players' signatures on it to make it worthwhile or something. Excuse me, It's the iconic coat, how dare you? But no, it's just hanging up in there for when I walk the dogs, because I'm not using a new 1 for that. We did set a Knowing Me, Knowing You question, however, Paul has pointed out he couldn't find the email, so he may not have had any
Paul
02:18 - 02:19
chance to think about it.
Mike Dowling
02:19 - 02:26
You got it, excellent, lovely. The jingle does play. ♪
Paul
02:26 - 02:28
You and me, you and me, you and me, you and me
Mike Dowling
02:28 - 02:29
♪ ♪
Paul
02:29 - 02:33
There's something we can do, you and me, you and me, you and me
Mike Dowling
02:33 - 02:48
♪ I love it, so rubbish. So Paul, we're gonna start with you then. If you were given a brand new post, director of fan base, what would be the first thing that you would change?
Paul
02:49 - 03:14
Director of fan base. I think the message came to me was design a pre-match event for fans and I think I would, same question I think it was, but if I had to come up with something, the person who came up with director of fan base or designer pre-match event jargon, I think I'd get the person in the center circle or the team in the center circle and then we'd shoot balls at them.
Mike Dowling
03:14 - 03:16
I don't know where this is going. Oh,
Paul
03:18 - 03:27
we'd shoot balls at them and then with great venom and then anyone who hit them can be the center forward next week. So that would be the pregame entertainment.
Mike Dowling
03:27 - 03:29
Can I change that to stand in the goal?
Paul
03:30 - 03:31
Yeah, stand in the goal. Because I
Mike Dowling
03:31 - 03:40
feel quite safe. Sorry, I should not have said that. That's bad. You'll come on to why I shouldn't have said that in a bit. Internal voice. No.
Paul
03:40 - 04:06
Internal voice. Nothing about it. So I think, do you know what it is? It's like everyone wants the pre-match experience and changes and this and that, don't they? And I think, I think I was, you just do the simple things really well. I mean so coming from a 55 year old bloke and a 17 year old son, you know, it's our thing. We go to the match day, we want a decent pint, a decent price, some decent food in a place where we can have a chat and a natter with our mates and people we know.
Paul
04:07 - 04:37
And so make the food and drink decent and decent competitive price. The fan zone is a great start. Improve it a little bit more, a little bit of cover. A heater would be nice. Can we afford a heating bill? I don't know, that would be really nice. So something like that. And if I had to get all marketeery on it, I think I'd have to get, for my sins, I'd have to go to West Dam occasionally, but 1 thing they do get there, they do get a DJ in, because I quite like the bands, but I don't think it works with the sound, does it?
Paul
04:37 - 04:50
But a DJ in, a proper DJ, spinning some tunes, and if we really were getting tarty about it, then I'm a sucker for a hype video. I do like a hype video. So, but I don't know how we play that over the Tanoi.
Mike Dowling
04:50 - 05:01
Yeah, I think Tanoi being fixed would probably be first on that list. Yeah, yeah. But just to clarify, no one's actually saying this. It's just me being stupid. So, no, don't worry. We haven't got a director of fan base and it's
Dan
05:01 - 05:05
not true. So, what we're saying is you're going in the center circle and I mean
Mike Dowling
05:05 - 05:07
I don't like where this is going
Paul
05:07 - 05:08
yeah you're straight in there
Mike Dowling
05:09 - 05:19
yes dan same question if there was a brand new post created of director of fan base which there has not been What would be the first things that you would change if it was you?
Dan
05:21 - 06:00
Well the title for starters, but yeah I think broadly the same as Paul. Mate I think the fan zone's all right, but I find it a bit cramped, because it's only half the space behind that stand. So open that out, put some sort of canopy or whatever over at least half of it, and then you can stick a couple of heaters, the big sort of warehouse heaters in the corner for a couple of hours. And then it's a usable space at this time of year because I didn't go around there yesterday, but I can't imagine it was that busy pre-match.
Dan
06:02 - 06:04
Yeah, just do this.
Paul
06:04 - 06:05
Some of
Dan
06:05 - 06:05
that's a
Mike Dowling
06:05 - 06:18
dizzy win for some companies because if you can afford a nice big outdoor heater they can just have a nice little logo slapped on that, sponsored by blah blah blah. It's nice and easy, it's going to be there for years. So yeah,
Dan
06:19 - 06:20
just simple stuff really.
Mike Dowling
06:21 - 07:02
Yeah, they did say last week no 1 was really interested in the pre-match or halftime entertainment. I just want to watch the football and moan about it thanks. So yeah give us your answers and yeah don't worry it's not real. So a couple bits of club news. Charlie has left us, gone back to MK Dons. Good luck to Charlie. Matt Rush was recalled and then he's left us to go to Boreham Wood. It seems some fee was involved there. I know 1 of the directors of the club he was at was like, I was on holiday in France, I had no chance to get this over the line at all, so it all happened so quickly.
Mike Dowling
07:02 - 07:35
So they were a bit missed. And we went cashless again, sort of. So I just want to ask you guys on that, because the Facebook post had something like 120 comments before I stopped reading. And none of them seem to pick up the fact that in the actual article it said, if you really must pay cash, you can do, you will be encouraged to pay by card and we'll review it at the end of the season. And everyone completely missed that bit. Jared wins the comment of the day of no cash isn't king, Dundo is king.
Mike Dowling
07:35 - 07:38
He absolutely wins that 1.
Dan
07:38 - 07:42
I'll add slides but that was about my only contribution was just to like that comment.
Mike Dowling
07:43 - 07:52
Yeah that was classic. But what do you think of it Dan? Does it make a difference to you? How do you think it's kind of been handled or don't care?
Dan
07:53 - 08:28
I mean, the initial announcement back in, cause it was announced back in November over a month ago. And obviously it was, that was done at like 3 days notice. So everyone kicked off about it because whilst I can understand, I mean the card stuff doesn't really bother me. I get there's gonna be people it's not gonna suit. So having the option to, okay, fair enough. But yeah, I mean, it doesn't particularly bother me. I can think of good reasons for it. I can think of bad reasons for it. But yeah my my main problem with it originally was that it was like 2 days notice or something.
Dan
08:28 - 09:01
And it's like well give people a chance to know it's coming. So that was the first thing. And I mean, they effectively did the same thing with this announcement with from the 1st of January, we told you this a month ago. But by the way, we're going cashless from tomorrow. You did that a month ago and you've given us a day's people a day's notice. OK, yeah. So it's like you've done it last week before Christmas. Then again. You you probably wouldn't have got as much as much moaning, but as you said, the article covered it.
Dan
09:01 - 09:14
And I think, again, it's just a typical social. A lot of the bullshit afterwards was about people reading a headline and not reading the article. At least this time, no 1 called it woke nonsense.
Mike Dowling
09:30 - 09:39
I don't know everyone but I'll be honest if you can come to something that long I'd have sight of you at some point. But Paul what what what do you what do you think on the.
Paul
09:39 - 10:14
Yeah. I was a little bit clumsy wasn't it in terms of the timeliness of it. And actually I mean you've described the actual position in in 2 lines there about where they are with this. And it was buried in the article that actually, look, we understand for some people this is really difficult, and if you really need to use cash, you can. Something along that tone. Because I was, it was fine by me, I didn't really care personally, but I was thinking more of the youth and stuff, who will be there, not with people who've got cars and haven't got cars themselves and actually cash is easier for them.
Paul
10:15 - 10:39
So if we're trying to encourage that group and encourage some spend that didn't really sound like it was The message itself didn't sound as though it tallied with that But if there is something there in there that says, you know It's got a little asterix on it and says, you know, if you've got cash you can bring it then that's fine But yeah, it was bit clumsy when that clumsy And you know and as Dan says, you know you only give people half a chance to have a right old moan on the socials and take it won't they?
Paul
10:39 - 10:41
With not enough science to back it up.
Dan
10:41 - 11:15
That was the 1 thing with the kids stuff I get that I do get that argument but all mine I've got 3 nieces all are around sort of that teenage age, so they're 14, 16, and 17. And for about 5 years, they've all had like, I don't even know what the cards are called, they're like a prepaid debit card. You lob money on and it works. You can either draw it as cash or you can just tap. I mean, I'm not saying everybody's got those, but they are pretty common now these days, because, you know.
Mike Dowling
11:16 - 11:19
Rosie's got, she's got 7, she's had it for 2 years, a little.
Dan
11:19 - 11:20
Yeah, so
Mike Dowling
11:21 - 11:40
I do think the club needs to trick that because what they should have been doing, come to the club shop, you can buy a prepaid card. It's 11 pound for 10 pound or whatever it is and sell them and people can just keep putting the money onto it and that's where people can budget. I mean yeah putting the money onto that. Exactly that
Paul
11:40 - 11:42
Mike, you should be director of fan base.
Mike Dowling
11:42 - 12:00
Director of fan base yeah. The other thing I thought about it is there's a lot of people who say oh we're so stuck in our ways we need to be more professional we need to do this and then as soon as we do something that a lot of the professional clubs are doing everyone's I don't like that that's not what we mean to say we want to be professional we want it to stay the way we want but have more money.
Paul
12:01 - 12:21
Yeah but but they didn't and they didn't come up with the reason either. The reason they came up with it was industry standard. I mean, what does that mean? And it doesn't mean anything. And it doesn't resonate with, you know, if they said we're doing it for this and this and this, which means for the club, it's this, this and this and this and what it means for you is this, then that would have been... But no, it's industry standard. It's just, it's just marketing.
Mike Dowling
12:22 - 12:53
Again, in the comments, but and it was the last 1, I think it's David Daines. He was saying that, to be fair, everyone thinking that cards are more expensive to be for clubs to use or businesses to use is way back in the day. It used to be that cards were more expensive per transaction, but now cash is way more expensive. And also, if you think about the amount of cash that's there, let's say over a weekend, everyone spends it on a Saturday, they can't do anything with it. So it's got to be stored on the Sunday and the insurance would be like way way up there because anyone could go
Paul
12:53 - 12:55
there it is isn't it
Mike Dowling
12:57 - 13:01
yeah exactly just here it's cheaper for us sorry about everyone but we need to save every penny so
Paul
13:01 - 13:02
yeah yeah
Mike Dowling
13:02 - 13:02
and it's
Paul
13:02 - 13:05
got down for you and
Dan
13:05 - 13:18
also where you've got to look at is that if you've got several thousand quids out there around over the weekend I I know the club used to bank with barclays I don't even know that if there's a where's the nearest branch of barclays these days
Mike Dowling
13:19 - 13:20
not still the same is
Dan
13:20 - 13:25
there actually 1 still there because I know every other bank I know every other bank's closed in
Mike Dowling
13:30 - 13:31
I've always assumed it's it must
Paul
13:31 - 13:33
be the last 1 open isn't it? Yeah, I think
Dan
13:33 - 13:42
I think there's a branch of Santander as well and that's it. There's no high street banks anymore so it's not like you can someone can just pop in and do it on first thing Monday morning.
Mike Dowling
13:42 - 13:46
It's in the southern high street it's closed because we don't put our cash in there anymore.
Dan
13:46 - 13:47
Yeah, probably.
Paul
13:47 - 13:48
We've got to blame that now as
Mike Dowling
13:48 - 14:22
well. Yeah. That'll be all over the sun, go on. So in podcast news, got a new coat. I don't know if anyone heard that news. It's amazing. And secondly, based on Charlie Waller, I sent him a nice little message saying good luck Charlie blah blah and he said come back with oh thanks I enjoy listening to the podcast and I know a few other boys do too so that terrified me and I apologize for everybody yeah I apologize to anyone who have been listening that any of my guests said anything horrible too, because I would never say anything horrible to you guys, because you're all bigger than me.
Mike Dowling
14:24 - 14:45
But onto the match, I've tried to avoid it. It was wet, it was horrible. What did you, I mean, when I got there quite early, it wasn't that bad, but, Dan, what were you all thinking watching with the weather and, traipsing in, in the freezing cold, wet and the wind swirling around? What were your expectations and thoughts on the lineup?
Dan
14:47 - 15:20
Yeah, it was me. It was a minging day. I mean, I got off the bus at the top of Sutton as normal and between the bus stop at B&Q, what was B&Q and O'Neill's, because we're going to stick my head in because Steve was supposed to be in there, it was so, the weather was so bad I just went screw it I'm having a pint and we'll get a cab down or get the train round that's how bad it was so yeah we didn't we didn't hold out hopes for a particularly a particularly coherent game but whilst it was crap I thought the pitch held up brilliantly.
Dan
15:21 - 15:40
You know, that's where you start to see your investment there. And actually, it was I thought it was a half decent game, at least. Both sides got it downplayed. I don't think the wind and the rain particularly played a part in the game itself so it was just being stood there in the cold
Mike Dowling
15:43 - 15:54
wherever we stood it was coming right at you how is that even possible it can't always be in my face Paul were you expecting a few goalkeepers difficulties?
Paul
15:54 - 16:28
Yeah yeah when it came when it came clear and clear I wasn't going to make Spun which would have been Nice because I would have been able to watch the game But so yeah, so but when I saw it was on I thought fair play to the ground staff for getting that on But as Dan said it is that the pitch has certainly helped isn't it? And I thought well, I thought it's gonna be a bit of a shame that the wind would play it apart I thought it was gonna be scrappy And I think it probably might have been in which we were playing Matt Gray ball No disrespect to Matt got us a long way to it.
Paul
16:28 - 16:50
But but The way we're playing it at the moment, I know there's a lot of it about the game that's disappointing, but the way we're knocking it about on the deck and playing it around, I thought they, I mean that seems to be our style now anyway, but suit the conditions. It was on the deck and fair play to Aldershot as well and as Dan said it was a reasonable game to watch in those conditions.
Mike Dowling
16:50 - 17:19
Yeah, I did, there was some of the Aldershot staff in the bar beforehand drinking teas or coffees, just to clarify that, they were looking very enviously at my cruise campo, camp cruiser, whatever it's called, but they were like, oh go on then, give us your thoughts. What should happen today? And I said, oh, you lot should just go home and give us the points. They weren't impressed with that. But there was no Steve in the dugout. Did you notice that, Paul, from the TV?
Paul
17:20 - 17:41
I didn't notice it from the TV. I was watching Dan reading Gandamonium on Twitter and various comments on your Whatsapp group and stuff like that so I didn't know until the start of the game. But yeah and it's interesting isn't it what the effect that has on a bench and a team? I mean, only they will know really, wouldn't they? Yeah, I mean, as
Mike Dowling
17:41 - 18:03
far as I know, they're fed all the information and him standing there is only likely to antagonise the officials. So I'm not sure how much the players actually listen to what he's... I'm sure they do, Steve, but I'm not sure how much effect. Because they're given all the information and then obviously Anthony will feed it to them. But Dan, what did you think? Again, there was nothing said about that. It was just like, Steve's not there.
Dan
18:03 - 18:54
Yeah, it just shows you how much attention I was paying I didn't know until afterwards when he got mentioned in his interview so okay then you know this is the thing these days with not having your manager on the bench. I don't think it hurts you. I suppose the only problem you have is a communication thing in that if they do see something being sat in the stand that he needs to get through to. But you know, the lads will have been knowing with the way these guys are so organized these days they've probably got he's probably just got Anthony or me on on what's on a whatsapp call he can just punch do a hands free and say have you seen that you know so it's not difficult to communicate And with him being sat up in the stand, maybe.
Dan
18:55 - 19:05
You know, it gives him a slightly different view of things, rather than being at pitch level, gives him a slightly better, a broader view. So we might see things he might not normally seen. So so, yes,
Mike Dowling
19:05 - 19:17
it was a manager years ago that did that. It was and we got sent off. I can't remember who it was now. But some people do remember.
Paul
19:17 - 19:20
It was Premier League manager, wasn't it?
Mike Dowling
19:20 - 19:54
Yeah, yeah, it was a high profile manager who went, oh, actually, no punishment here. Thank you very much, I'll do that. So, yeah, I mean, it was unclear what it was for. I had someone telling me that it was he was sent off at Barnet and then it turned out he had a fifth yellow card which was surprising that it's only the fifth yellow card. But what I've written down Dan is chances, chances, chances, nadders goal. How did you see the first sort of 25 minutes, half an hour?
Dan
19:55 - 20:36
I thought first 15, we were, we just didn't seem to get going. I mean, they started quite bright. They moved the ball around well. They had a couple of sniffs. We probably did well not to be behind. I mean Jack sort of came racing out, half cleared 1 and it rolled straight to 1 of their blokes. I went oh here we go 1 nil and made the save so we had a cut we lived a little bit dangerously first 15 but then it seemed to be on 15 we just seemed to click it was just from that moment forward We just got hold of the ball, moved it nice, moved it quick, moved it confidently.
Dan
20:36 - 21:16
Just did it at a little bit of a tempo that we've probably not seen us do it for a while. I think the last time I saw us move the ball like that was first half against Maidenhead. Just zipping it around, generally finding the mark. And it's the first time in a long time I've seen us dominate the ball like that. Certainly under Steve, where we've dominated the ball, and just built. Pressure on the opposite, on the opposition, just slowly squeezed them and squeezed them and then it led to a goal. Whereas a lot of our stuff this year seems to come from, you know, a quick turnaround, a quick break or we've robbed ball and it's just a couple of passes.
Dan
21:16 - 21:58
We tend to score not out of nowhere, but it's suddenly a quick event. We don't tend to build up heads of steam like that these days with the way we play. So, it was quite nice to see that we put the pressure on them and didn't let them off. Once we scored, we were dominating up to probably 35 minutes, probably needed a second, But we sort of just took our foot off the gas a little bit and they came a little bit more back into it at the end. But I mean, overall, bar the slightly slow start, once we got going, we looked really good.
Dan
21:58 - 22:04
You know, played some of the best stuff we've played this season. I thought, you know, certainly tempo wise.
Mike Dowling
22:05 - 22:10
Yeah, I mean, you always at our level, you always get those grumbles when the ball is going forward, then comes back and it's like,
Paul
22:10 - 22:11
no, you just get
Mike Dowling
22:11 - 22:36
it forward. Get inside. Well, no, you can see that there is nothing on. So they're keeping the ball. It's a better football. I get that we all just want it to lump forward and just quick goal, goal, goal, but it's not going to happen. Paul, how did you see the sort of first half? And I mean, the pressure to build up to Nada's goal was just immense the way they just kept on. I mean, 1 hand you can say, well, we should have scored in 1 of the first options, but they just kept it on and on and on.
Mike Dowling
22:36 - 22:37
So how did you see that first time?
Paul
22:37 - 23:16
Yeah, pretty much like, pretty much like Dan, really. I felt the, I felt, I mean, at the start, there's been a lot of progression. I get a feel that the progression is there that I think at the start the season It looked disjoint here. They all looks a little unsure of themselves They they weren't quite sure what they were trying to do and I think I think we see more and more of that In patches and it's it's a bit inconsistent, isn't it? And in fact, the game is probably is probably you can shine a light on that game, the season really that started a little bit slow but I really get a sense that they know what the game plan is, they know where each other are going to be.
Paul
23:16 - 23:57
They can knock it around a little bit and the tempo's there. Actually, I thought it was there at Barnet as well, so I went to the Barnet game and I thought there was some really good stuff being played there. So I think between those 2 games, I think, yeah, I've seen us knock it around and been quite consistent, a little bit more consistent with it anyway. But yeah, they had their chances, didn't they? But we were definitely, I mean, we were swinging a lot in from the from some crosses from the sides without too much impact but we get behind them and yeah it was a decent first 45 certainly at the back end
Mike Dowling
23:57 - 24:46
of it anyway. The second half again with some chances I think the best 1 probably fell to Will Davis, where he got his full studs onto it and it ended up going straight to the keeper, whereas if he'd got kind of half a foot on it, it would have gone to either side. And that's not criticism, well, obviously I would never have even been there, but it was just 1 of those, oh if you got that wrong, if you just didn't connect properly, I sound like Andy Townsend now, he's too good, but we still had the chances and it was all ticking over and it was like okay we're gonna score, we're gonna score, and then sort of 70, 75 minutes they suddenly went right let's get back into this now, even before Jack went off Paul, they started to come back into it, and you just felt, oh God, hang on a minute, we're definitely gonna lose some of those chances.
Mike Dowling
24:47 - 24:49
How did you, how are you feeling at that point?
Paul
24:50 - 25:29
Yeah, I mean, I'm no expert in the psychology of football or the tactics of football particularly, but it does seem to be that whole, when you start to back off or you start, you know, starting to think about changes or I don't know what's going on just players naturally do it particularly whether it's just an instinct that they're not flying in so much but you do get a sense that and and all shot of taking more chances of course and gambling a bit more so you did sense that something was coming and I mean and I do wonder I do wonder about that that youth aspect or the young aspect of the team that in terms of these scenarios they're still perhaps not quite there with it
Dan
25:29 - 25:30
I was writing down some
Paul
25:30 - 26:01
of the ages of players I haven't seen it for a while I know and I just did half a dozen before I got bored doing it but there's 25 22 22 22 23 was just the 5 or 6 and that's young isn't it to actually and game probably still learning game management a little bit. So, and we see some of the best teams, we see some of the best teams messing it up, don't we? So, Premier League level. So it's, they say the best way to defend a 1-0 lead is to go 2-0 up, isn't it?
Paul
26:01 - 26:01
And
Mike Dowling
26:01 - 26:03
we didn't. 2-0's a dangerous scoreline.
Paul
26:04 - 26:07
What is it though? Is it 3-0? I don't know.
Mike Dowling
26:07 - 26:19
We're not comfortable at 4-0. I just remember that ball game where we were 4-0 up and everyone went, yeah, this is going to go to shit second half. Dan, how were you feeling first part of the second half up to the sort of 70, 75 minutes, they started to.
Dan
26:20 - 26:52
Yeah, I was quite pleased with how we, we, we, I mean, we, we felt that they were obviously going to come out and have a bit more of a go, cause they had a bit of normal life towards the end of the half, But I thought we started again. It wasn't quite as Coherent as the first half, but we were still creating chances. We'll add a couple of sniffs I actually thought the 1 he had right the start the first half that the free kick to the back post Thought that was a better chance And he just I don't know He just didn't quite he got under it and lifted it over when he could have maybe hit the target with it.
Dan
26:52 - 27:31
But yeah, I thought, you know, it was get a second here and the game's done, you know, they're not going to get 2. They, you know, they, they weren't, I think they threatened way more first half than they did second. So it was just a case, we can get a second here, then this game's done. I think the turning point was subbing De Silva for ransom. That seemed to just basically surrender the initiative, I think for want of a better way describing it to them. It took off, I can understand why you take Dylan off cause not played a lot of football lately.
Dan
27:31 - 28:15
So he's probably not going to go 90 minutes. But I think they probably looked at that and went, right, well, that that lad who's caused us a few problems down the walk down the out wide's gone. They've gone with a big centre back and it's just encouraged them on a bit more. And yeah, game management does need work because from that point on, I mean, we were saying that all the guys, I and all the guys around me on the terrace about an hour, 65 minutes gone, we're going need a second goal here because last 10 minutes they're going to have a go because they're going to look at us they know we're a young side they're going to say well look they're going to gamble more they're going to throw more balls forward more balls into the box they're going to try and get at us and see have we have we got you know the stones for it
Paul
28:15 - 28:15
yeah
Dan
28:16 - 28:38
that's what sides are going to do if they've got a bit experience. It's what we're going to do. And that's what came and then Jack getting injured. I think that probably sealed our fate. Not the fact that we lost him, but the fact that they went, we're on top here boys, but we're now gonna have a good few minutes extra on the end, rather than 2 or 3 minutes.
Paul
28:38 - 28:39
Yeah,
Dan
28:39 - 28:46
we're now, we're gonna have 8, maybe 10 minutes here on top to keep going. Yeah, keep pushing them. And I'm unfortunately.
Mike Dowling
28:47 - 29:03
A little huddle, a little chat and whatnot. So yeah, Jack's injury, I actually haven't heard anything since. I know he was taken to hospital. I think someone was saying in the group, gonna be under the concussion rules anyway, no
Dan
29:03 - 29:07
matter what happens. Anything to do with a head injury these days tends to be.
Mike Dowling
29:07 - 29:48
So obviously hope he's okay. Matt came on probably thinking, hang on a minute, I'm not supposed to be doing this. And as you said, they threw everything. And again, an even younger keeper, less experience, it was coming but I suspect and I think you guys probably do as well it may have been coming even if Jack had stayed, had not had the injury and stayed on. You'll never know. They were definitely throwing the sink at it. But yeah, you've mentioned it, Dan, game management. Once a team gets a reputation for conceding late goals, teams are gonna go, right, we're gonna go for that.
Mike Dowling
29:49 - 29:53
What can we do? How can we stop that? I mean,
Dan
29:53 - 30:34
the thing is, while they didn't have. I mean, all right, they were throwing balls forward, they were getting out, but they didn't have any. I think probably the 2 sniffs just before, I mean, obviously the 1 that made Jack go off. And they had 1 where the guy pulled the shot straight at him. But once Matt came on, they were just, I think, trying to pressure him with balls into the box. And by and large they didn't do a lot. The goal came from us having a wild slash a ball in our own box again and rather than clearing our lines we popped it straight to their bloke who's,
Paul
30:35 - 30:35
you
Dan
30:35 - 31:05
know, has a free hit on goal. So just like it was at Rochdale. So yeah, I mean, I wouldn't really blame, say it was Matt. I mean, it's going to be shit as a goalkeeper coming on with 10 minutes to go and get yourself, play yourself into the game. It's tough, but I don't think his defense did him. I don't think his defense did him any favors. You know, every time we cleared, it was going 10 yards rather than 60, you know, you need to just clear your lines reset and and go again
Mike Dowling
31:05 - 31:16
yeah and everyone's saying oh it's no don't blame that I don't blame that it's not fucking hell please the way you're saying it sounds like you are but paul how are you sort of feeling at that point and yeah
Paul
31:16 - 31:50
I mean you could see their eyes lit up didn't they when they could see 8 minutes on the clock and they were ready to go for it and new keeper definitely decent ball in to be fair you know we've been interested to see if Jack would have got to it I'm not yeah I don't think he would have particularly yeah it's just 1 of those 1 of those things in it but yeah you know I mean yeah we've seen it so many times, haven't we? Slow the tempo down, play it to the wings, break up play, roll around the floor, all the dirty tricks, and we're just not particularly good at any of that at the moment, or, you know, we're not executing it anyway.
Paul
31:50 - 32:04
So, and I guess, and that's, I feel like a little bit of that is going back to the age thing, I don't know, but a lot of, there's a lot less of that under 18, under 21 level, isn't there? So, I wonder whether that will just come. I need to
Mike Dowling
32:04 - 32:24
keep me to keep Easton on part time just to do those training sessions. This is what you scream as soon as a tackle comes anywhere near you. Yeah. And the other little Slightly interesting point is there was a slight concern before the match at the referee, Mr. Brooke, because we have slight history, but I didn't think
Paul
32:24 - 32:24
he was that bad.
Mike Dowling
32:24 - 32:34
I know we went for a spate giving them cards every few seconds, but I mean, Paul, how did you feel before I asked Dan, because obviously Dan may have a vendetta, I'm not sure.
Paul
32:36 - 32:57
Yeah, you know, I think, you know, without getting big, big picture football on it, we've got a big issue with refereeing, haven't we? We're not getting referees coming through the ranks and, you know, we've lost. And so it's a catch 22, the refereeing's getting worse, I think. And the abuse is getting worse, and it's just, yeah, it's all a bit of a mess, isn't it really? So- Not
Mike Dowling
32:57 - 32:58
a job I'd wanna do.
Paul
32:58 - 33:00
Yeah, no, no, no.
Mike Dowling
33:00 - 33:17
Yeah, And some of it is also with the things that are doing, oh, there's always gonna be 4 officials plus the VAR officials. You're gonna be having more needed up the top. So therefore, that's why people have been promoted on a lot over the years. Dan, What did you think of Karl Brooks?
Dan
33:18 - 33:58
I'll be fair. I mean, no, I mean, to be fair to him, I mean, we've probably been, I mean, how many years have we probably been getting him for games now? 10, 15 years maybe. He's been around a good while now. So he's an experienced ref. When we first used to get him, it would be more often than not he wouldn't be particularly good. But he's 1 of those ones who seems to have at least matured a little bit. And just, you know, just being I think an older head. He's certainly improved. His game management is actually a bit better and way better than it used to be.
Dan
33:58 - 34:18
And I actually thought he did okay yesterday. I don't think he was. A couple of weird decisions towards the end of the game as well when it was getting a bit more fraught and where we maybe needed a couple of those decisions to go our way and just break the play up a bit.
Paul
34:18 - 34:18
Yeah.
Dan
34:18 - 34:24
He was having none of it. Whereas 10 minutes before he'd been blind them all day long, you know,
Mike Dowling
34:24 - 34:39
it was a nice piece in the middle of the park where suddenly there was a heavy tackle, then another heavy tackle and then I like knew like, okay, we're going to get free kicking. It was about 4 or 5 tackles he's like oh my god none of them were giving us a free kick what's going on with his block but yeah he did well even even
Dan
34:39 - 34:42
couldn't blame him couldn't really blame him for the for the result or whatever
Mike Dowling
34:42 - 34:49
just like try but even Frankie had to go he's had a good game today yeah whoa I mean
Dan
34:49 - 34:54
yeah if if Frankie reckons he had a good game, then there's your seat approval.
Mike Dowling
34:54 - 35:00
Excellent. Right, so we're gonna finish on the game with just the good, the bad, and the funny. «FLUTE
Paul
35:00 - 35:01
AND SITAR MUSIC»
Mike Dowling
35:30 - 35:31
Yeah, I think most
Paul
35:31 - 35:31
people do.
Mike Dowling
35:33 - 35:37
So, Dan, match day experience, what was good for you?
Dan
35:40 - 36:13
First off, performance, I thought was largely good. Moved the ball well, moved it at a good tempo. That's been a little bit of something we've not really done well this year. We've played some decent stuff but we need to just do it a bit quicker. Yeah, I think that's just what misses sometimes from us. We just need to do it that half yard quicker and that was that was good to see and like I say the building that pressure on them not letting them get out when we were on top of them and getting the goal so yeah that was the first first off performance for me largely.
Mike Dowling
36:14 - 36:17
Paul what's good for you I know your matchday experience was like different.
Paul
36:17 - 36:52
Yeah, it was similar. I mean soon as it that really yeah It's I think I think I'm seeing some good stuff in chunks and And I'm thinking I'm you know The league I mean, We're probably in the right position maybe a bit higher and actually if we go into the playoffs or got promoted I think we'd be more worried wouldn't we? You know, actually that team is gonna wouldn't would be out of its depth a little bit. But so I think But I can see some progression and it's actually quite exciting and some of it's quite entertaining, bearing in mind some of the stuff that we saw while we were being successful wasn't particularly entertaining at times.
Paul
36:52 - 37:07
But, so the good stuff is the way we're playing and I'd like to see us take a tilt with the trophy. That would be nice. That's probably linked a little bit I think but yeah that was a good thing
Mike Dowling
37:07 - 37:08
come on to that in a sec there's
Paul
37:08 - 37:09
some concerns
Mike Dowling
37:10 - 37:11
what was bad for you
Paul
37:14 - 37:22
for me what was bad oh well it's the bloody goal in 93 minutes, isn't it? Oh, it was a 98, I suppose.
Mike Dowling
37:22 - 37:27
I was 98. We were improving. And then what was bad for you?
Dan
37:28 - 37:34
The goal. Weather was horrible when it was just a miserable day out.
Mike Dowling
37:35 - 37:35
Yeah, which
Dan
37:35 - 38:02
is a shame actually, because I think even if it's just been a bit cold, if it'd been cold and dry, probably put another 300 on the gate, 400 on the gate. Because everyone would have been huddled undercover. But yeah, the weather and obviously the inevitable, we're 1 up here, we're going to chuck this equaliser that everybody spotted about 30 minutes before it arrived.
Mike Dowling
38:03 - 38:07
And obviously both of them said the injury to Jack as well obviously.
Dan
38:07 - 38:08
Yeah, obviously.
Mike Dowling
38:11 - 38:14
Dan, what was funny about the day? Don't you dare say the coat.
Dan
38:15 - 38:53
I wasn't going to mention the coach. Amazing. Was it just up? Jack had gone off the rock Matt on and they had a corner and everyone's like a bloody L. They're going to stick this right in under the bar going to you know, they're that big center back. They're probably going to put him on Matt you know put him under pressure first set piece a bloke took it whipped it straight into the side netting and we all just stood there and pissed off just because it's such such a bad like you know they were all probably they're not all their fans are probably thinking saying yeah get it in there get it get him under this new geezer under pressure and like
Mike Dowling
38:53 - 38:54
yeah
Dan
38:54 - 38:56
like buries it into the side netting so I did
Mike Dowling
38:56 - 39:00
actually think he was going to get him to retake that. So that she come in.
Dan
39:01 - 39:10
Yeah, I think someone said I don't want this beating first man I think just as he took it yeah that was a everyone just everyone just stood there laughing
Mike Dowling
39:11 - 39:13
and oh what was funny for you
Paul
39:14 - 39:27
I think sat in my front room with a fresh brew and a toasty looking at you lot all getting pissed on for 90 minutes was It's worth a chuckle Especially when you cut my I can't see see you on the
Mike Dowling
39:32 - 39:45
Right so 1 other question I had to do with Tamworth, what was your guys views on the ticket prices? Because they've kind of obviously gone
Dan
39:45 - 39:46
way, way,
Mike Dowling
39:46 - 40:01
way up. It's nothing to do with us and my opinion means absolutely all cool. But how would you guys be if that was us? Would you be understanding or would you be like fuming? Paul, we'll start with you.
Paul
40:03 - 40:20
I'd be embarrassed. I think what a PR own goal for, I don't know how much extra revenue that makes, but it's on the TV. They've got a chance of exposure, people coming down there, people coming down there for the first time. Yeah, I thought it was an absolute PR and go for it. I don't know what would it be? 5 grand maybe something like that.
Mike Dowling
40:22 - 40:25
More? Yeah, I don't know. I mean,
Paul
40:25 - 40:27
I don't know. It's still a small
Mike Dowling
40:27 - 40:27
amount of gold.
Paul
40:28 - 40:29
It's still small amount of gold
Mike Dowling
40:29 - 40:33
to me. It's like 25, 20, 20 quid, 25 quid extra.
Paul
40:33 - 40:34
So I
Mike Dowling
40:34 - 40:38
don't know how they get in there, but obviously they they're expecting to sell out.
Paul
40:38 - 40:42
And I mean, look at it. It's all going viral, isn't it? And, you know, just.
Mike Dowling
40:44 - 40:50
All exposure is Good exposure. And what do you think? Again,
Paul
40:51 - 40:52
I mean,
Dan
40:53 - 41:12
it's I mean, yeah, I get why people have gone. What? Because it is a big old jump. I mean, I think we went there in the league. It was like 18 quid. So that's a score over your normal match day. I get having to maximize the revenue because we had to do the same when we played Arsenal. I mean, we went to what, 30 quid standing,
Mike Dowling
41:13 - 41:14
but yeah,
Dan
41:15 - 41:16
but we'd at least had
Mike Dowling
41:17 - 41:20
games or I think
Dan
41:20 - 41:50
we paid all but the Wimbledon game Rule at home. They're all fairly big ties and it just crept up for each game. So it was a bit more it wasn't a bit as much of a kick in the up the jacksie as that would be you know it's like to suddenly go from your 18 quids to 38 and that is a big old jump so so yeah it's going to be a bit of a shock to the system I can understand that but they've got to make the money out of it but also you've also got to look at it from the point of view of there's no replay.
Dan
41:51 - 42:11
No. They've taken that away from them so you know if you're gonna if you're gonna take money out of their pocket which is I Doubt Spurs will put a great side out They're not gonna risk. They're not gonna risk many first-teamers They'll still put a decent side out, but that's not gonna be first choice.
Mike Dowling
42:11 - 42:12
Yeah
Dan
42:14 - 42:30
It's you know, it's a chance, you know, you get him dinner that little ground it's on a 3g pitch they're not gonna like that they've got the ladder he's got can bomb the long throws in you know you can cause them problems any old days you I'd say that that game would have a sniff as a possibly a replay
Paul
42:31 - 42:31
yeah well they
Dan
42:31 - 42:49
ain't got that now there is half half full at their new at the new white lane is a million quid to them yeah we're gonna take that away from them so whilst I can understand people being pissed to get into a non-league ground. Don't take money out of the pocket then.
Paul
42:49 - 42:50
Yeah, I mean it could be and
Mike Dowling
42:50 - 43:00
we don't know and I don't think we'd ever know but they could have actually emailed all their regulars they know and when is a code to knock some money off in the checkout.
Dan
43:00 - 43:01
You can't.
Mike Dowling
43:01 - 43:03
You can't. You can't. Yeah, you can't
Dan
43:03 - 43:10
do it. It's all pay in it. You can't. And both sides have to agree the tickets. I think still these days.
Mike Dowling
43:10 - 43:12
Yeah, I agree that.
Dan
43:13 - 43:17
Yeah, you can't discount Cup games. It's not allowed to.
Paul
43:19 - 43:21
And the timing, you know, Christmas, New Year.
Dan
43:21 - 43:51
Yeah. It's on top of Christmas. It's okay. I can, it's 1 of them ones you can see totally both sides of it, but I would take the side of, They've got to make the money out of it. They're not a big club. They've got to make their dough. So it's a 1 in a lifetime. They've got to make the cash and greedy bastards like Spurs have taken the option to make the serious cash away from them because of no replays. Because they want to pounce off and play fucking tours in Singapore and stuff at the end of the season, so
Mike Dowling
43:53 - 43:53
I can't
Dan
43:53 - 43:58
have it both ways. Give us give give give Cubs like us the shout. Yeah,
Mike Dowling
43:59 - 44:29
well, I am my the idea of giving challenges seems to have come suddenly around. So my suggestion on the FA Cup was teams could say whether we want to go to a replay or not or a result on the day. And if 1 team wants the result on the day and the other says no replay, then the team who wants to result in the day has to win. If it's a draw, Tamworth go through. That's it. So you said you don't want to replay, it's up to you. You can't decide after 9 minutes. You'd see teams taking it seriously then.
Mike Dowling
44:30 - 45:01
On Tamworth, What are we looking at? I mean, it was 2-2 at their place. 2-1 out of 1-2 at our place the other week. Are we looking to complete the set and go for us winning 2-1 and have a nice even scoreline, 1 of each? We do have some injuries. Obviously, there's Jack, Arnie, Josh. Josh won't be back. Siju won't be back. Jaden, I don't think will be back. Not sure if Matt Kirby's cup tied. I think there was a chat in the group earlier that he was only an unused sub, so he may not be cup tied.
Mike Dowling
45:01 - 45:10
And obviously we've got my Matt Rush. So Dan, what are your feelings on this game? And how do you think we're going to approach it, especially with the keeper situation?
Dan
45:12 - 45:46
Well, I mean, I suppose it's down to what Steve's thinking is if Matt is available, like we think he might be, cause he was an unused sub, does he go with Matt or does he go with you know see this as a way to keep the season because at the moment we're looking very much likely mid-table unless we have a kick on in the next month or so. So he's going to want to keep some interest I think in the trophy. Does he go and get a short term emergency loan just so he feels more comfortable there or does he go with Matt?
Dan
45:46 - 46:10
I'd be interested to see what they do as well. Cause I think obviously the F they're at their big FA cup tie. We're just talking about is the following weekend, isn't it? So how Obviously they're a part-time side. They're not going to have a squad of 35 they can pick from. So it's going to be a relatively strong side, but how interested are they going to be?
Mike Dowling
46:11 - 46:13
Well, last time we said that was Grimsby.
Dan
46:13 - 46:14
Grimsby, I know.
Mike Dowling
46:15 - 46:19
And it was their, their families. I'll just don't hurt us. That's all we're asking. Just don't, yeah.
Dan
46:20 - 46:22
And then we rolled over and died for them.
Mike Dowling
46:23 - 46:48
If it was me, if we were in that position and we had a FA trophy tie. That could be seen as winnable because obviously they've drawn and beaten us. And then a week later an FA Cup tie against a Premier League side, I'd be like, no, let's target the FA Trophy because we've got more chance of progressing on that 1, haven't we? I mean, yes, there's a lovely payday, but you don't have replays, you've already said. So, yeah, I'll be like, oh, no, go for the trophy. And Paul, what do you think? How do you see it going?
Paul
46:48 - 47:19
And. I mean, just on that, I mean, it's the, it's the, it's a chance for these players to be on TV against the big club, isn't it? And suddenly players score your score and take that opportunity away from your first thing would be quite difficult for a FA trophy game against Sutton. But I mean, it's The mighty Sutton. Cup specialist Sutton. The, and so, yeah, I mean, I mean, we're 6 points, as Dan said, it depends on, I think it depends on what management's feel on this 1 is. We're 6 points off the playoffs and we're 11 points off relegation it feels like.
Paul
47:19 - 47:48
But are we going to put a massive run together and scream up the table to the playoffs? It doesn't feel... Yes, yes we are. Yes and I hope those players listening were fully behind that. But you know you get a sense that that inconsistency will still be there and we'll probably win as many as we lose But so maybe an FA Trophy till we would love you know We haven't won it before away so and it'd be really nice to it'd be really nice to do that And I don't know you I've got a taste for Wembley.
Paul
47:48 - 48:03
I'll be do that again But yeah, and and and and you know, we haven't got a massive score, we've got some injuries, so I don't think we're talking about putting the first team out, putting the squad out, we've got what we've got.
Mike Dowling
48:05 - 48:21
Yeah. I mean, the FA Trophy's never been held outside of Wembley, so I don't think we've ever had Wembley so we might go for that. Sorry Jan, don't do it, it's fine.
Dan
48:22 - 48:24
Does anyone even know where the final of that is?
Paul
48:24 - 48:25
I don't think the FA or
Mike Dowling
48:25 - 48:27
the National League know where it is.
Dan
48:28 - 48:30
They produced the
Mike Dowling
48:30 - 48:53
details of the competition a week before it kicked off. So it might be finals 1, they can go, right, we'll have the final down at the rec or whatever. Who kept their goals up? Let's see what's available. So what's your predictions, Dan? What do you reckon? I don't think you played in the prediction league.
Dan
48:58 - 49:27
So, no. It really comes down, I know we're a bit short of the minute with bodies and things like that. I don't think it's going to be a classic because I can't see them being... I think obviously they'll play because like I say they're not going to have a big squad so they're going to put their lads out but it's whether they... How hard are they going to go? I think it will probably be tight, probably 1 goal, 1 goal will probably win it. Just hope it's us and we see a game out. We will do, yeah.
Mike Dowling
49:28 - 49:34
Definitely. Paul, what do you reckon? And again, if you predict here now, don't worry, you can change it. Yeah, yeah.
Paul
49:34 - 49:46
I do fancy us for a win. As I say, there's lots of factors at play, but I do fancy us for a win as I said there's lots of factors at play in there but I do fancy us for a win but if I put a number on it I think it's all gonna come together and we're gonna give a good old tonkin and it's gonna be 4-1
Mike Dowling
49:47 - 50:26
well I'm going for 2-1 just to even it up so it was 2-2, 1-2, 2-1 that's just I like a little order in my life and so we'll go from there but 1 other question because I had a conversation with unbeaten over Christmas, unbeaten in 2025. What do you guys say in that? I mean, I know I'm being extra positive, but yay. But Dan, when's Christmas period start for you?
Dan
50:29 - 50:30
24th.
Mike Dowling
50:30 - 50:32
Okay, fair enough, Excellent.
Paul
50:32 - 50:43
Dan agrees with me. Paul, you? Yeah, I'm not a million miles from there. I've got to go with 23, something like that. Whatever my last working day is, I think. That's probably whatever that's for.
Mike Dowling
50:44 - 50:47
I'll be honest, some people work on the 24th so that's yeah
Dan
50:47 - 50:48
so you can't do this year
Paul
50:48 - 50:49
so exactly
Mike Dowling
50:50 - 51:39
so you do agree yay we're all scroogies cratch it keep working right guys thank you very very much anyone who wants to join in the prediction league The codes are all over the place. I don't know even remember where I've last posted them, but I'll get back onto that soon. But we're gonna wrap up this episode of Something Podcast. As always, we appreciate your attention and feedback. Get involved in the knowing me, knowing you question. Don't shout at me, it's not real. If you're a brand new director or fan base, what would be the first thing you'd change as again it's not real it's just me making up shit questions follow like and share this episode at something podcast on social media don't tag me to say it was a shit question I know that subscribe on your preferred platform give us a little thumbs up on the youtube and we will be back on Sunday where things start getting a little bit back to normal apart from the bloody Willstone game and we will have Alex and a debut for Leo.
Mike Dowling
51:40 - 51:54
As always thank you to Lucky Star Gin our sponsors, big thank you to you guys for jumping on this evening after a heavy New Year's Day. And thanks to you listeners as well. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of Sutton Podcast. Take care and we'll catch up soon. Bye-bye.
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