00:00 - 00:46
Hello and welcome to a special episode of Sight & United Talk Time on podcast in association with Lucky Star Gin. I would say surprise guests joining me, but it's going to be all over the artwork, so it's not really a surprise.
Mike Dowling
00:46 - 00:51
It's the man himself, the legend, Craig Dundas. Hello, Craig. How are you?
Craig Dundas
00:51 - 00:52
Yeah, I'm good, thanks. How are you?
Mike Dowling
00:53 - 00:55
Very well, thank you. Been
Craig Dundas
00:55 - 00:55
a
Mike Dowling
00:55 - 00:55
while,
Craig Dundas
00:55 - 00:56
been
Mike Dowling
00:57 - 01:11
a while. I was just going to say, it was like 2017, 18, I had you on and spent a lot of the time saying, oh, well, your career is coming to an end and da da da, what's your plans for after football? And seven years later, you're still playing.
Craig Dundas
01:13 - 01:21
Yeah, I've been retiring for the last 10 years, but yeah, end of the season is just another year, another year. I did
Mike Dowling
01:21 - 01:28
fall into a little bit of habit, especially, I think the last four or five years of like literally the end of every season, it's like one more season, one more season.
Craig Dundas
01:30 - 01:32
Jokingly, and now, yeah, I'm still going, so maybe
Mike Dowling
01:32 - 01:33
another
Craig Dundas
01:33 - 01:35
season's ahead of me.
Mike Dowling
01:36 - 01:55
So just to sort of catch up, Since you left Sutton, how have things been for you since you sort of moved on from the club? Obviously, it's a big sort of moment to move on. It kind of happened, but a big part of your life. And then you've gone off to another club nearby. You didn't stop.
Craig Dundas
01:56 - 02:22
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, during the end of my Sutton moment, I knew it was going to come to an end, so I was kind of prepared for it anyway when it did happen. I didn't really have any plans for it. But it did happen. So it was just a case of doing what I was doing. So I was doing other jobs. I was coaching with the Bulldogs Academy. So I had that as like a little thing to do. But then Warren phoned me up. He was at Epsom. He said, do you want to come down and coach and maybe play now again?
Craig Dundas
02:23 - 02:48
So I thought, cool, let me check that out and see what it's like. Obviously, I need to kind of work on my coaching and stuff like that, especially in the men's game as well. But I've been doing that under 15s. But yeah, so yeah, I've done a few sessions with him. Then I played a few friendlies and it ended up saying, oh, I think you still can play. So I've got to play you a lot more. So yeah, I've ended up playing, I think, 40 games so far this year. Still not winding down, still kicking on.
Craig Dundas
02:48 - 02:49
So, yes, yeah.
Mike Dowling
02:49 - 02:53
Absolutely. Was it a brace the other week?
Craig Dundas
02:54 - 02:55
Yeah,
Mike Dowling
02:55 - 02:55
it was
Craig Dundas
02:55 - 02:57
a brace against Ballum, yeah.
Mike Dowling
02:57 - 02:57
Two
Craig Dundas
02:58 - 03:01
goals. But we lost 3-2, so I couldn't really celebrate the goals too
Mike Dowling
03:01 - 03:12
well. I did tell the media guy when you first went there, I said, if Dumbo's in the line-up, then the rule is he has to be in the photos, so we can all get it tweeted
Craig Dundas
03:12 - 03:13
out as well.
Mike Dowling
03:14 - 03:14
I
Craig Dundas
03:14 - 03:19
used to wear the camera, so I kind of run the other way, I think. So, yeah, I didn't get the pictures that I needed.
Mike Dowling
03:19 - 03:20
Looking for Paul, yeah.
Craig Dundas
03:20 - 03:21
Yeah.
Mike Dowling
03:21 - 03:42
Yeah, he did say to me, because we obviously came down and said hello to you, but he did say that it was like, yeah, he's basically played pretty much every game and every minute of every game. In fact, I chatted to him the other day and he said he'd be very surprised if you weren't winning player of the year. Don't want to ruin any surprises there. We'll see.
Craig Dundas
03:42 - 03:42
We'll see.
Mike Dowling
03:44 - 03:52
What's been the biggest adjustment for you stepping away from sort of the full time? I know we're only full time for a bit, but what's been the biggest adjustment?
Craig Dundas
03:55 - 04:25
I don't know, really. I mean, because I've always generally been working anyway during most of my football career. So it's not like a big adjustment. It's just a change of, say, training wise. I've not been able to train as much as I would do because I'll be working more. So, yeah, that plan and all that sort of stuff has to come away and play. I think that's probably the biggest adjustments I've had, where if we're training every day, we've got food, we've got lunch, and then that's me for the day. But now I've actually got to plan my meeting rather than picking up stuff on the way.
Craig Dundas
04:25 - 04:36
Obviously, I'm getting older, so the pounds go on a little bit quicker than usual. But, yeah, because I'm used to working, so it's just me just going back into that a little bit more, really.
Mike Dowling
04:37 - 04:58
Yeah. And the, I mean, you've mentioned you obviously played a lot more than you maybe were expecting. But what's kind of the vibe like at Epsom & Manil? There's a lot of younger players there I remember sort of seeing, and they were heading for a night out, and you were giving all the words of caution. What's it kind of like with these young players running all over the place?
Craig Dundas
05:00 - 05:30
I think the league itself is kind of a young league, so it's a lot of adjusting, playing style-wise. because obviously the higher you play, you kind of tend to know where everybody is, what kind of runs they're going to be doing. It's just probably different, a bit more quality and stuff. But, yeah, the boys have been well, always asking questions. They kind of look to my experience for guidance, which is what I've kind of went there to do anyway. So, yeah, it's just been that extra help trying to get players to be better and improve, really.
Mike Dowling
05:32 - 05:47
And you've kind of done this playing, coaching, interim management at the moment, and also you're doing the Ballers Academy, as you mentioned. What was it about the Ballers that kind of got you attracted to get involved with that?
Craig Dundas
05:49 - 06:26
Originally, I was somewhere for my son to go. So he used to train there on a Monday, I believe it was. So, yeah, I was just watching him train and kind of find out about what they do in the community, in my area. So they've got like disabled stuff, they do disabled sports, they do girls teams, they do kind of more activity-based stuff and that, and they do holiday camps and stuff like that. So it's a really kind of community-based kind of organisation. So it's really good for the community. And because I'm in the area, and obviously I've been in football for quite a while, I thought I could kind of help get down there.
Craig Dundas
06:27 - 06:38
and see what I could add to them, really. And it's something I want to get into, like community stuff and stuff like that as well. So it just worked at the right time for me and it was local, so something I really wanted to do. It
Mike Dowling
06:40 - 06:47
must actually be amazing to be able to do something you're good at, you love, you worked at, to be like, I can give something back by doing what I love doing
Craig Dundas
06:47 - 06:49
anyway. Yeah, exactly.
Mike Dowling
06:50 - 06:57
What about the kids? Do they know they're being trained by a legend? Are they aware?
Craig Dundas
06:57 - 07:28
They don't know I'm a legend, as they say. But I was on FIFA or FC 24 the year before. And yeah, some of the kids, what they like, they just get on there and go, yeah, this is your FIFA card. And that's what they're more bothered about, my FIFA card, rather than what I've done in my career and stuff like that. Yeah, it was always nice to see the kids have someone that they kind of look up to or believe they could be better than, because they're always challenging me to one-on-ones and all that sort of stuff.
Craig Dundas
07:28 - 07:56
But, yeah, it's good fun for them. And, yeah, just passing my love to them and making sure they enjoy it, really. I mean, that's the most important part about football. It's having somewhere to go where you can enjoy it. I mean, there's not a lot of places you can really go and enjoy football at a young age and still be kind of competitive and learning at the same time. So, yes, it's good to be there. But, yeah, they do love the FC card. But it was, yeah, really getting on to me about my rating. My rating is about 54 or whatever.
Craig Dundas
07:56 - 07:58
So, yeah, it was good fun. You
Mike Dowling
07:59 - 08:01
should point out your age. Excuse me. Yeah,
Craig Dundas
08:01 - 08:07
I'm just telling off my age. But, yeah, my pace and, yeah, my rating was what was getting on to me about. So, yeah, it was
Mike Dowling
08:07 - 08:08
good
Craig Dundas
08:08 - 08:08
fun.
Mike Dowling
08:09 - 08:36
But yeah, I mean, you're right, it is very much with all the kids, everyone, every parent kind of goes, oh, they can kick a ball, therefore they're gonna go into an academy and all the rest of it. And there's not much that you can just do the, no, we're just doing this for fun and meeting people. I mean, my old Sunday team, it was nine of them all came up for a little league together, good players, but they all came up for a little league and they managed to play Sunday league together. And I was like, you boys don't know how lucky you are to be playing with your mates every weekend.
Mike Dowling
08:38 - 08:49
How do you sort of balance? I know you're doing the, you're working, you're doing Epsom and you've got the ballers and you've got your family as well. How do you sort of balance and keep the energy for all of them?
Craig Dundas
08:51 - 09:19
I think I'm mainly relaxed most of the time when I'm not doing those things. I do nap quite a bit, which the missus gets on to me about a bit too much when I should be doing other stuff around the house. I don't really know. I mean, I just try and cram stuff in that I need to do. And then when it's time to relax, I relax when I need to. And then, yeah, I'll do my stuff for the kids. I mean, they do like playing computer games and stuff like that. So it's easy for me to just sit there and play with them and do board games and stuff like that.
Craig Dundas
09:19 - 09:28
So when I get a chance, I do take them out and stuff like that. So, yeah, it is difficult time-wise, but we tend to get it in most, most weeks.
Mike Dowling
09:30 - 09:55
And you kind of, you've shifted from the full-time. Has you noticed anything different and appreciate maybe certain things more that was happening that you didn't maybe realize at the time that you should have appreciated? I know you went into the full-time. Well, yeah, everyone says you went into full-time professional quite late, but you were a professional previously out in Cyprus, wasn't it?
Craig Dundas
09:56 - 09:56
Yeah.
Mike Dowling
09:57 - 10:05
So is there anything you kind of appreciate now about the game that you're trying to pass on to some of these youngsters to say you've got to enjoy this or you've got to make the most of this?
Craig Dundas
10:07 - 10:37
I think, yeah, just making the most of like every session because I've had like a 20 plus, like playing football for 20 plus years, but it goes really, really quick and you don't realise how quick it goes. But before you know it, you either released or you've got injured or no-one wants to sign you anymore, and that's gone in the flesh. It's about giving your all, day in, day out, and then just enjoying the moments you have, because once it goes past, it just goes like that in the flesh, and then sometimes you can't even remember.
Craig Dundas
10:37 - 10:59
I mean, I'm digging up some programmes for the testimonial, and I'm reading stuff about what... Obviously, I've kept them because I know I've done something good in the programme, but I'm looking at old programmes, and I didn't realise I did all this stuff last play. As I said, it goes quick. Sometimes you don't even remember most of it, but yes, it's about enjoying what you're doing and yeah, just taking it in really and not taking it for granted.
Mike Dowling
11:01 - 11:07
Yeah. I mean, just want to say where you said 20 plus, that plus is doing a bit of heavy lifting. It's what, 26, 27? Yeah. I forget now. It's got
Craig Dundas
11:08 - 11:08
to
Mike Dowling
11:09 - 11:09
the
Craig Dundas
11:09 - 11:10
point where you start to forget.
Mike Dowling
11:16 - 11:31
So are there any kind of, you've played under various different managers, different coaches at Sutton and elsewhere. Is there any of their coaching drills or anything that you've kind of gone? Yeah, I'm going to keep that. I'm going to have that. I'm going to put my own spin on it that you still use to this day.
Craig Dundas
11:32 - 12:03
Honestly, I'll probably use everything that they've all taught me. So everything, yeah, any drill that they've done, any kind of tactics they've set up, I'm just pretty much using it all. I mean, The best, I was on a UEFA B, I think last year, and one of the tutors said, like, the best coaches are the good best thieves. So you have to kind of take stuff from other coaches, obviously to go into your philosophy and how you want to do things. But it's best to take from what you've seen and take the best and the bad out of it.
Craig Dundas
12:03 - 12:12
But yeah, every coach, I've been lucky. I've had loads of good coaches throughout my playing career. So I've always just took whatever sessions I could think of from them. Yeah, 100 percent.
Mike Dowling
12:15 - 12:36
So, I mean, I know you've been with Sutton a long time, but we're going to sort of rewind back to 2007 when you signed for us. Can you remember much about that initial move and what your first impressions of Sutton were back in the day, before the day? I
Craig Dundas
12:38 - 13:12
remember I was at Karlshort and so it was a kind of a like a big kind of move to go to from Colchon to Sutton because his arrival was a little bit more on the same level back in those times. It was just a quick thing because the manager was Ernie Howell and Peter Baudet, who was with me at Croydon, one of our first clubs. He just said to me, do you want to come to Sutton? And I didn't realise, I knew Sutton was in like the conference, the National League it is now. So I knew there was quite a big like, I didn't realise how big, I didn't know about the Coventry and all that sort of stuff before I signed.
Craig Dundas
13:13 - 13:38
But then, yeah, I soon realised when I got there what type of club it was. Yeah, and then, obviously, first game, 3-0 down after, I think it was half an hour or something like that. I knew the club was not in a good way because I think it was bottom of the league at the time, but I didn't realise how bad it was. So I was thinking, who have I signed for here? It's going to be another tough, tough year. But, yeah, I had a good six months or four months, what it was, to the end of the season.
Craig Dundas
13:38 - 14:04
So I really enjoyed my time when I signed. It was a little bit more professional. Obviously, the level was what I wanted to play. I wanted to play as high as I could. And, yeah, it seemed a good, well-run club at the time compared to some of the clubs that I've been at before. So, yeah, it was enlightening. very difficult time in terms of results and stuff like that. But personally, I've done really well. So, yeah, I enjoyed it at the start.
Mike Dowling
14:06 - 14:37
Yeah, I mean, when I was looking this up and doing a bit, I thought, that's a really strange stack. Your first season with us, we got relegated. And your last season with us, we got relegated. It was like, oh, that's a nice little loop. We're back in the National League. At what point did you think, hang on a minute, this isn't going to be just another club that I'm at. This is home. This is where I'm going to be for a long, long time.
Craig Dundas
14:41 - 15:09
Probably after, well, the year I got released and got myself back into shape, we have a year at Hampton, which is a good year. And then as soon as Doz kind of phoned me up and said, do you want to come back? I was like, yeah, straight away I snapped send off to come back. And I think from then, that's when I thought this could be a place where, because I don't really like to move clubs, as you see in how long I've played, I haven't played for many clubs. So I don't really like to move clubs.
Craig Dundas
15:09 - 15:25
I kind of look for somewhere stable anyway. But then when I come back in that year and Dorsey explained to me what his plans and stuff like that was, what he was looking to do with the club, from then I was just like, yeah, I want to stay here for as long as I can. And yeah, the rest is history, I guess.
Mike Dowling
15:27 - 15:43
I know you don't like this, really, but cult hero, legend. What do you think it was about your playing style or your attitude personality that created such a strong connection with the supporters?
Craig Dundas
15:45 - 16:19
Probably things because I never really give up and I just base my game on just working hard and just trying to make things happen as best as I can. So no matter what the score is, I said my first game was 3-0 down, but I still continue to go because for me it's just about playing football and enjoying it. I mean, you could be 4 or 5-0 down, but still you might be able to get a goal here and there or you have to find some enjoyment in losing at some point. rather than dealing with gloom, I think it's probably my work rate, as well as a few good goals I've scored in the few years.
Craig Dundas
16:19 - 16:19
But
Speaker 2
16:19 - 16:19
yeah, I think
Craig Dundas
16:19 - 16:41
mainly probably my work rate. And yeah, I think my personality is I'm quite approachable as well. Like I said, Sarton's been like a club where you go after the game, speak with the supporters and they're there until whatever o'clock and they just come approach you and then you can have stories and whatever with them. So I think it's really those main things that's kind of endeared me to the fans.
Mike Dowling
16:43 - 16:50
I mean, obviously, you've made the title to the podcast, you've kind of, you created the podcast, Kai, to be honest with you.
Craig Dundas
16:52 - 16:53
I want some royalties on that.
Mike Dowling
16:53 - 17:19
Yeah, yeah. Well, when I get paid, you will. So, I mean, it's well known that football players and fans are very, very superstitious and have little quirks. I mean, I stood on that curver for a long time, then I had to move and had a bit of a sulk about it. You've had changing rooms, getting knocked down, moved, all sorts of different things. What kind of quirks or routines did you have when you were at Sartre, or were there any?
Craig Dundas
17:21 - 17:49
I went for a stage where I had one I used to do, where I used to basically do the warm up I always used to warm up in molds, no matter what it was, and then change my boots before the start of the game, when I had other boots. Then I used to take off my warm on. Basically, I just take off my kit and then re-get dressed again, ready for the game. So that's kind of the only superstition that I had. I think, yeah, that one I used to wash my face with cold water and stuff like that before.
Craig Dundas
17:49 - 17:58
So, yeah, wash my face with cold water, take off all my warm-up kit, socks, everything, and then just re-dress. ready for the kick-off.
Mike Dowling
18:00 - 18:09
Yeah, I heard a story about boots where you rocked up at Croydon, did your training session and they went, yeah, come next week, bring boots. You haven't got any. Yeah,
Craig Dundas
18:09 - 18:18
that was a long time ago and I didn't really know about, because growing up I used to just play in an indoor gym, like the wooden flooring with the green
Speaker 2
18:20 - 18:20
and
Craig Dundas
18:20 - 18:46
carpet ball, whatever it was. So, yeah, I just turned up in those, really. And I didn't know anything about semi-pro. And I just know that at the time that I didn't have to pay subs, which kind of, what, drawed me to playing for Croydon. And then, yeah, I didn't have any boots. And then, yeah, I had to go back. And, yeah, somehow I managed to find some boots from somebody or whoever. And then, yeah, I got back down there. And, yeah, it started to go well.
Mike Dowling
18:47 - 18:53
Yeah, these are the days before Sports Direct, everyone, you can go and get a pair of the Adoras for 5p or something. Yeah. Yeah,
Craig Dundas
18:54 - 18:59
we had to go to central London, Lillie White's, I think it was at the time, to go get our boots. So I
Mike Dowling
18:59 - 18:59
don't
Craig Dundas
18:59 - 19:00
even know if that's
Mike Dowling
19:01 - 19:18
still there. There's a little shopping more than there was. They did good trade. So, lots of matches, lots of opponents. Who stands out as the toughest opponent that you've faced? Who did you look and think, oh, God, please don't let them be playing?
Craig Dundas
19:20 - 19:59
Toughest opponent? I'm trying to think. Probably there was a guy at... I think it was Hayes and Yedim back in the day. It might have been, who was it? It might have been Darty Brown, I think his name was. I think he's passed away now. I think he was one of the players that I used to hate playing against, as well as Marvin Morgan, another guy who's passed away as well, when he was at Hayes and Yedden as well. Basically, the Hayes and Yedden team, I think it was in that era. But every time we used to play, he used to always do something special.
Craig Dundas
20:00 - 20:10
And it was those kind of two that kind of spring to mind. I mean, there's probably a few more that I can't think of at the moment, but I think those two just spring to mind.
Mike Dowling
20:12 - 20:36
And you've mentioned the fitness regime, because I do remember one stage you came back after a pre-season and it was like you'd done some kind of weird voodoo ritual and you were half the man that you had previously been. What was the secret to, what was the switch that made you go, yeah, I'm taking this seriously now, I'm changing up everything?
Craig Dundas
20:39 - 21:11
I think it was later on in my career, if I can remember. I think it was probably one of those years where I was going to retire again and I thought, I think I've still got a little bit left in me. So I think that year the missus went away with the kids on holiday and I stayed home and I was just doing double sessions for like two, three weeks before we went into pre-season. I think pre-season started, I was still feeling fit. I don't think I was going to play much that year either. But then I think three or four of our strikers got injured and then I was basically the only one left.
Craig Dundas
21:12 - 21:46
And then, yeah, from then I just went on, played and then had a really, really good year. And then that's where the one more year come from, because that's where it started. One more year, see what I can do in the off season, see if I can keep fit and healthy. And then, yeah, I mean, just, yeah, I was just doing double sessions that summer, eating right, not eating none of the... Because I do like biscuits. Biscuits is probably my weakness. Biscuits and fried chicken. So cut those out for maybe two, three years. And yeah, it's been much better since then.
Mike Dowling
21:52 - 22:06
You spoke about lots of the goals. There's a couple that, I mean there's loads, but there's a couple I want to talk about. The Tranmere one, I think it was 99 in an FA Cup match. It was goal number 99, not in 1999.
Craig Dundas
22:11 - 22:13
In the league it was, I think it was in the league. Was
Mike Dowling
22:13 - 22:28
it league? Away? Yeah, away. It was a big goal and there was lots of noise and celebrations. I mean, how much goes through your mind at that time? Do you think, oh, that was something special? Can you hear everyone chanting, shouting your name, going mad?
Craig Dundas
22:29 - 23:01
Yeah, there was, yeah, because we do carry a loud support away from home. I definitely did hear them that day, but it was just one of those grounds that I liked playing at. It's got the big, massive stand. It's a very, like, it can be hostile in, like, the evening games in terms of, like, the atmosphere they create, and it can get you nervous, stuff like that. But being my first, that was my first, I think that was my first National League goal as well. So it was a special ground to get it at, and it was a special moment, and obviously got us to win that year as well.
Craig Dundas
23:01 - 23:13
So, yeah, it was really, really nice, and it's probably one of my more memorable goals or more... What's the word? One of my most sentimental goals, I think. So, yeah.
Mike Dowling
23:15 - 23:39
So you've kind of touched on this when you said you're looking through the programs and thinking, oh God, I didn't realize that. When these milestones are occurring, does it play on your mind? Once you got that 99, did you start sitting there going, got to get 100, got to get 100, and start sort of overthinking it? Or is it just literally just, I'm here to play football, I'm not paying subs, I'm loving life at the moment.
Craig Dundas
23:41 - 24:03
A bit of everything. I didn't really know. Obviously, Clyde Baxter, the kit man, he used to come and tell me everything that was going on. So, he's the one who put most of the pressure onto me rather than myself. So, I was just trying to do it, just, like, do it for him, because he's, like, he likes those sort of milestones, like, round it off, because I'm on 109 now, and he was on to me about getting that one more to round it off. So, yeah, other than him telling me, I wouldn't really know milestones.
Craig Dundas
24:03 - 24:10
Like, when it was my 100th appearance, it's 200, I'd just turn up, and then someone would say, oh, this is your... so-and-so for appearance. I was like,
Mike Dowling
24:10 - 24:11
oh, is it?
Craig Dundas
24:11 - 24:20
I didn't realise, because I'm just how I am. I just go day to day and take it as it is. So, yeah, it's just mainly Clive putting pressure on me to get that 100th goal at that moment.
Mike Dowling
24:22 - 24:28
And you got your little mural? Yeah. On the 450? I think that was 300, that one
Craig Dundas
24:28 - 24:30
was. Yeah, 300 or 400, yeah.
Mike Dowling
24:31 - 24:35
Yeah. And then you went on, you carried on. Yeah. One more year, one more
Craig Dundas
24:35 - 24:36
year. One more year.
Mike Dowling
24:37 - 25:15
You did make your debut in the EFL, which came pretty late. People don't know, they can't be sure, but certainly since the Second World War, the oldest player to make a debut in the EFL It wasn't give the old boy a run out. It was we were hanging on to, I'd said someone to draw the game, but actually it was win the game and look back. And we were hanging on to get our first win in the EFL. And you came on to steady the ship. What was that moment like? And did you ever think, did you think it had passed you by before that before that season?
Mike Dowling
25:15 - 25:17
Did you think it wasn't going to happen?
Craig Dundas
25:19 - 25:47
Yeah, I kind of give up my dream of playing league football a long time ago, probably. I think when I was at Carl Schurton, there was a point where I was doing well. I think I scored a load of goals and I was supposed to go Swindon for pre-season and then the manager got sacked. So then that was no chance of me doing it. And that's probably my only kind of chance of playing AFL football throughout my career. So, yeah, I definitely given up on it. And I didn't think it was going to have the season that we did in the National League.
Craig Dundas
25:49 - 26:21
to absolutely go and win it. And then when we won it, it was a case of, will he keep me in a place to get this moment? But he told me early on that no matter what, you're going to get it, whether it's at the start of the season or at the end of the season, because obviously he sees me in training and says, you still can do do a job there. So, yeah, just keep yourself on it, look after yourself. And then at some other time, I'm going to give you the opportunity, which might agree with most managers wouldn't do that, I don't think.
Craig Dundas
26:21 - 26:52
So at the age that I was, so fair play to him for doing that. And then, yeah, the day or the night before he phones me up and says, yeah, you're going to be in the squad tomorrow. So I didn't think nothing of it because, you know, we hadn't had a win. So I didn't really think that I would get the opportunity. But, yeah, 2-1 up, he's saying, look, we need someone to go up there, just hold the ball up and set the game for us, which is what I've pretty been good at doing in the back end of my career, winning free-kicks, holding the ball up and bringing people into play.
Craig Dundas
26:52 - 27:08
So, yeah, I was fit enough, so I just went on there, done the job that I needed to do. And, yeah, we just started the game to get our first win, which is perfect for me, getting my first league win and my first debut in a league as well. So, yeah, it was a good afternoon for me. and
Mike Dowling
27:08 - 27:16
Paul caught your face coming on. Your big grin. I was like, oh, that was one of the best pictures I've seen in years. I didn't even realise I
Craig Dundas
27:16 - 27:17
was smiling.
Mike Dowling
27:18 - 27:26
Oh, you were grinning. What did Matt say to you as you were coming on? Just
Craig Dundas
27:27 - 27:27
normal
Mike Dowling
27:27 - 27:28
instructions?
Craig Dundas
27:28 - 27:54
Yeah, just do what you normally do. Just hold the ball up for us, bring other people into play so we can have a little rest and keep the ball, because I think we were under pressure, but they were starting to put us a bit under pressure. So we just needed someone to hold it up there just for a little bit longer to release the pressure on us. And yeah, I did that. And yeah, it was about all he said to me was, yeah, just keep doing what you've been doing throughout the years.
Mike Dowling
27:57 - 28:04
Now, I was a bit mean when I said about the full circle relegation first season, relegation last season. I've
Craig Dundas
28:04 - 28:07
had more, I've had a few relegations, it's alright.
Mike Dowling
28:08 - 28:38
But you've had title wins as well. So we won the National League South and the National League, which you were part of the squad in both of those. How did the two sort of squads compare and what was the experience like on winning those championships? I know one of them you were slightly more direct influence, but the other one you were in and around the squad and it's definitely that COVID time as well. Everyone needs to be together. What was it like in those title winning seasons?
Craig Dundas
28:41 - 29:09
I think the National League one, I think we I think I was warming up in a game with Toby Show Silver, easy for me to say. It was a home game and I can't remember who we were playing but we were warming up together and we were just watching the game while we were warming up and we kind of looked at each other at the same time and said, oh, I think we've got something there this year. Not many people would have thought that we could go on and win the league, but that day we looked at each other and thought, yeah, we could win something here.
Craig Dundas
29:10 - 29:49
And then, yeah, obviously the quality we had, we obviously went on and won it. But the squad itself, I mean, from the goalkeeper to the 23rd, 24th player in the squad, everyone was all on the same page. They weren't too unhappy when they were left out. When they were left out, they were cheering on the boys. So everyone was kind of in it together. There weren't no bad eggs or anything like that. So I think that's what that squad kind of pushed each other on. So the competition was there. So when one player got injured or suspended, another one would step straight in because the way we just supported over that year is what kind of pushed us over the line to get to the title.
Craig Dundas
29:49 - 30:17
The National League South team, was just about, we had a lot of, what could I say? The word's camaraderie, but it's more like, I think it's more banter-ish kind of, like, easygoing kind of players where everyone would just get on to each other, like, in a good way, take the mickey out of each other. And then we would just turn up to games. I think we went 26 unbeaten that year when, I think, was it Epstey? Epstey.
Mike Dowling
30:17 - 30:18
Running away, yeah.
Craig Dundas
30:20 - 30:49
and I think they booked their Vegas trip and all that sort of stuff. So we didn't think at the time that we could catch them, but the vibe around the changing room was that, yeah, we can win most games. I think we got to the game, I think 12 or 13, and then we just turned up to the game and just winning them without even trying sort of thing. So I think the togetherness and how everyone used to be bantering with each other and stuff like that, that year was a really good and enjoyable year with that squad.
Mike Dowling
30:51 - 31:06
So which is your favorite season of all? It doesn't necessarily have to be either of those. And, in fact, if you want, you can drop both of those out. But which would you say is your favorite season that you've had? Can you pinpoint one?
Craig Dundas
31:08 - 31:47
Favorite? I mean, take out the successful years with, obviously, the title-winning teams. Obviously, the Arsenal year as well. Take that out. I'd probably go the year we finished, I think we finished second. The year I got 19 and we lost in the playoffs to Dover. Up until then, that was a really, really good year. Again, similar to the Conference South squad, kind of the same kind of atmosphere. But personally, to get 19 goals was probably my best year, season for starting. So I think that season will be kind of personally what I enjoyed.
Mike Dowling
31:49 - 32:05
And over the years, or different managers, was there any memorable team talk? So inspiring, angry, whatever you want. Was there any team talk where you were like, oh, that one got to us?
Craig Dundas
32:05 - 32:18
Yeah, there was one that I think survived. It was away at Maidenhead. I think we lost the game. because it was a game that got replayed, I think, previously. We were 4-3 up, maybe,
Mike Dowling
32:18 - 32:18
and
Craig Dundas
32:18 - 32:21
then it got caught, abandoned because of the weather. And then
Mike Dowling
32:21 - 32:25
we got beat. I think 3-2 is when Luis had scored from, like, the halfway line.
Craig Dundas
32:25 - 33:01
Yeah, there was, I think, Luis scored one. There was amazing goals from, like, both teams in that game on, like, a mudbath of a pitch. It was, like, the worst pitch I've ever played on, I think. But, yeah, the football was good. We were being played. But anyway, the game got abandoned and we had to replay it and we ended up losing the next game. against them. And Dozis just kept us in the change room for at least half an hour afterwards. And yeah, the things he was saying, I can't repeat. But that was the funny thing, the change of the team talk that always will spring to mind, where players was getting blamed that weren't here.
Craig Dundas
33:02 - 33:08
And yeah, it was a crazy team talk. And I think if you mention it to me, we'll be able to remember it 100%.
Mike Dowling
33:10 - 33:39
I think I was probably one of the ones that SUFC TV had technical problems and he couldn't do the post-match. You've hinted at this, and at least one person is going to be pleased it didn't happen, but was there any serious opportunities to move on from Sutton? But you said it wasn't Sutton, it was when you were at Carshawton. But were there any other chances to kind of go, OK, I'm going to move on, move up, or was it just that one time where you said Swindon were interested?
Craig Dundas
33:40 - 34:13
Yeah, I think there was one time when Lewis were top of the National League. Was it the National League? Were top of the National League, or we were the National League, so I think it was top of the National League, maybe. I think Steve King was the manager. That was probably the only time when I could have left. But then, yeah, they just gave me another contract, probably an extra tenner a week, and I just stayed. As I said earlier, I wasn't one of those who liked to move clubs a lot, so it was easy to kind of persuade me to stay, really.
Craig Dundas
34:13 - 34:16
That was the only club I could remember. I was interested.
Mike Dowling
34:17 - 34:22
You joke about that tenner, but that probably broke Bruce's heart, to be fair.
Craig Dundas
34:22 - 34:25
Probably. It got him back off Eva Stryker's key, anyway.
Mike Dowling
34:30 - 34:38
You won Supporters Player of the Year multiple times. How much does that direct recognition and appreciation from the fans mean to you? A
Craig Dundas
34:40 - 35:12
lot. I mean, you know, they pay their money to come and watch you week in, week out. In the high moments, when you score goals, that's who you run into to celebrate with. with the fans to kind of have the admiration they do for me, it's heartwarming. And it's what you play football for, really. I mean, you do play, obviously, to play at the high level. But when you get good fans around the atmosphere and the ground, and like when we won the National League, they were there with us around the ground. And when we won the Ryman Premier League, they were in the bar with us.
Craig Dundas
35:13 - 35:29
We were there until whatever it was, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock at night. It was just like celebrating. You could hear them chanting. with a cup and it's what it's made of, isn't it? I mean, if you could bring some joy through playing football, that's one of the things you do it for. So, yeah, when the fans are happy, then you know you're doing something right.
Mike Dowling
35:31 - 35:39
Yeah, it was like the Papa John's as well. We lost and yet you guys came back expecting it to be dead. And it was like, it went on at 2 o'clock in the morning.
Craig Dundas
35:39 - 35:43
Yeah, I remember walking around saying, imagine if we actually won, what this place would be like.
Mike Dowling
35:43 - 35:43
Yeah,
Craig Dundas
35:43 - 35:43
that would
Mike Dowling
35:43 - 35:58
have been terrifying. So this is probably really unfair, so I will allow you to dip it, but you've had lots of teammates. Who do you feel you had the best connection with on the pitch and or off the pitch?
Craig Dundas
36:00 - 36:33
Um, I think it has to go through from areas, really. I mean, obviously, different areas are driving in with different players. So if you think of the National League team would probably be I think Simon Downer will be throughout most of the areas as well. So Simon Downer on and off the pitch, obviously a great guy, loves a joke and I shared the room with him a few times. So, yeah, probably be Simon Downer for the most part. But then you've got players like Bradley Will Garnish, I was close, he was close with. Eastman, Leroy Griffith.
Craig Dundas
36:34 - 36:58
Most of the National League teams, because it was during COVID, so he was with each other a lot. Jamie Collins. those sort of players really that, just off the top of my head, I could keep going because we're all, as a changing room, we're all kind of together. So it's hard to pick your favourites. But I think those are kind of the main protagonists that would be the ones that kind of come to mind.
Mike Dowling
37:00 - 37:21
I could chuck some other names at you right now, and you'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The list is too many. It was like when the debut happened and we saw the list of people underneath, the who's who of congratulating you, it was like, hang on, that's a lot of players. You don't get all that from just a player. People would really, really respect you. And you can tell that
Craig Dundas
37:21 - 37:25
from... Yeah, you've got Harry Butman, Louis John, Rob Milsom, yeah, I could just keep that.
Mike Dowling
37:25 - 37:50
Exactly, exactly. And that's why I said it was unfair. The reason why I wanted to mention the teammates is I wanted to put some in your mind, because the next question is, give us a story, dish some dirt on the dressing room. What's the memorable slash punishable story that you can tell? Kids listen, so do keep it PG. Story.
Craig Dundas
37:54 - 38:10
I actually don't know, because I don't really get involved in all that sort of stuff, really. I mean, I'm normally first to leave a night out, and that's even if I do get out. But, yeah, there's not really, let me think, what can I say? Any dirt,
Mike Dowling
38:11 - 38:11
any
Craig Dundas
38:11 - 38:12
funny stories.
Mike Dowling
38:12 - 38:14
You don't want to drop
Craig Dundas
38:14 - 38:18
anything. Only the team talks with doors open, really, when we've lost a game that we should have won.
Mike Dowling
38:22 - 38:36
You've hinted at this one as well. In particular, any away grounds or trips that you really look forward to with Sutton, so the atmosphere or a good track record? So you mentioned Tranmere, but was that your favourite away ground or is there others?
Craig Dundas
38:39 - 39:09
Probably, yeah, Tranmere and I think Orient is probably one of my favourite grounds where it's enclosed in. The atmosphere is always good there. And then we have an on and off kind of run of results there as well. But I think Orient, Chamberlain are probably my main ones. MK Dunnes was, stadium-wise, was a great stadium. And Amersfoort weren't as good as the other two. But yeah, I think those are the three stadiums I kind of enjoyed playing to the most.
Mike Dowling
39:10 - 39:10
Not Wembley?
Craig Dundas
39:12 - 39:14
No, that's too small for me, isn't it?
Mike Dowling
39:18 - 39:30
If you could magically play one game again for the first time, what game would you pick out to relive from your entire career? My career? Any game throughout your entire career.
Craig Dundas
39:35 - 40:04
Probably when I was away in Cyprus, when we played Applewell in the cup. away at their place in the GSV, which is like a lovely stadium. I'll probably put that in the stadiums that I'd like to go back to. But, yeah, funnily enough, I was on the bench that day because there's like a build-up. The team that I was at, they've got this English player who's doing quite well. We'd like to see what it's like today against them at their game. So they put me on the bench basically before. I don't know what reason to let one of their players play.
Craig Dundas
40:04 - 40:20
But, yeah, I definitely would like to relive that game and obviously start and we'll get a lot more minutes. But it was a good atmosphere there. Obviously, we lost quite heavily in that game, but it's because I wasn't playing, which I said to the manager afterwards. I
Mike Dowling
40:20 - 40:21
could have
Craig Dundas
40:21 - 40:28
done a little better. But yeah, probably that because I didn't get as much minutes as I wanted to in that game. So, yeah, probably replay that one.
Mike Dowling
40:29 - 40:42
I did hear of another friendly, I think it was, against a side playing European football. It was an early round of European football and you scored pretty much from the halfway line. Halfway line? He kicked the ball up in the halfway line, I think, maybe.
Craig Dundas
40:43 - 40:46
Oh, that's against Concord Rangers, I think it was.
Mike Dowling
40:46 - 40:49
No, it was definitely when you were out in Cyprus. Ken was doing it.
Craig Dundas
40:50 - 41:14
Was it, yeah? Yeah. That part of our career, I can remember a few of the goals. Obviously, the Apple World game, we played a game against a team called Alki. which is probably the biggest upset of that year. We were trying to make it through to the third round of the cup. So those are the two games that really spring to mind. Yeah, I used to pick the ball up from halfway, like that age, all the time, so I'm not going to pick
Mike Dowling
41:15 - 41:16
any game.
Craig Dundas
41:17 - 41:18
Obviously,
Mike Dowling
41:19 - 41:40
you became a very respected leader figure in the changing room. Did that happen naturally or was that you've always been like that, because you're quite quiet. Well, you seem quite quiet. I don't know what you're like in the changing rooms, because I've never been there. But is it just something that you evolved naturally, or have you always been sort of someone that people follow?
Craig Dundas
41:42 - 42:07
I think, yeah, it just happened naturally. As I said, yeah, I am quite quiet. If you talk to me, I'm happy to speak to you. I'm not kind... I haven't been the one that will always just go and make a conversation with somebody, but if we're next to each other, I could easily speak. Yeah, it's something that I kind of grew into, obviously, doing the different roles, then you have to kind of be a little bit more vocal. As you get older, players are looking towards you a little bit more, because you can't look to anyone else.
Craig Dundas
42:07 - 42:31
So you have to think, oh, I've got to kind of lead these players a little bit more. Yeah, it's just happened naturally. I think as you get older and you're in an industry for a certain amount of time, you tend to pick up things on how to be, how to act, and then you just try and do it in your own way. So yeah, that's what I try to be, like a little, I don't know what, uncle or father figure, whatever you want to call it, to the young lad. So yeah, that's what I used to do.
Mike Dowling
42:32 - 42:59
Okay, so we're now going to get to a bit, make you very uncomfortable, because I'm going to start banging the drum and hyping up the testimonial. Okay? Yeah, okay. I mean, how did you feel when you found out that the supporters in the club were organizing a testimonial for you? It doesn't happen very often these days, but how did it kind of come about? How did it make you feel?
Craig Dundas
43:01 - 43:32
They talked about it a few times during when Matty was there, I think during our first year in here before they started talking about it. And I didn't think it was going to happen, but I thought Like a testing mould is kind of a big thing. You don't get it all the time or you don't get it much. So it's an honour really, at a club like Sutton, to finally get something like this. Yeah, it's just a big honour and I was happy that we got organised and finally that it's going to happen in a few weeks.
Mike Dowling
43:33 - 44:10
It is indeed, and the list of people coming along, there's two matches in particular you mentioned in both seasons, the Arsenal FA Cup run and the promotion to the league run. Lots of different players, and one team's slightly hampered by some of the players still playing. But what do you... I know not being the centre of attention is what you're not looking forward to, but what are you most looking forward to on the day for the testimonial? Is it people coming back? Is it playing at Gander Green Lane again? I
Craig Dundas
44:12 - 44:40
think it's just to get to see everyone, as much as old teammates we can get down, because you know what it's like when players kind of tend to leave clubs. speak to them now and again, but you don't really get to see them as much. With the people you'd be sharing, you see three, four days a week when you're playing with them, you don't really get to see them that much and don't really get to speak to them a lot. So it's good to kind of get a lot of the old squads back together. That's kind of what I'm looking forward to, just seeing everybody, what shape they're in as well.
Craig Dundas
44:41 - 44:50
And see who's really let themselves go and who's kept themselves in good nick. But yeah, it's good to get everyone together. That's what I'm kind of really looking forward to.
Mike Dowling
44:51 - 45:13
Yeah, it's a very odd industry because you're playing with someone and you're chatting to them and then they get transferred or released and suddenly you don't really get the chance to say goodbye. So it's like, oh, OK, they're gone. Yeah. Which side are you swapping at halftime? What's the situation with you? Are you refing the game?
Craig Dundas
45:14 - 45:41
I don't want to be the ref, that's definite, because I know a few of the players, they're still competitive. So, yeah, I used to get battered in training when I used to ref, so I don't want to be doing it in a game like this. Yeah, hopefully I get to play for both teams. I'm not really kind of sorting that out yet. We'll see how it goes in a day. Obviously, some players will be able to play a full night, others won't. Some might have different obligations with their club and different restrictions. So, yeah, just see how it goes and, yeah, take it from there really.
Mike Dowling
45:43 - 46:07
You mentioned that training, it's, it's likely to be competitive. I mean, you got, uh, you got Jamie and he's the captaining sides. So that's usually the worst thing. How much of the competitive instinct do you think everyone's going to have? Um, it's going to start off fun and games, but I'm sure that.
Craig Dundas
46:08 - 46:25
Yeah, I think it will start off on the games, but by the end of it, yeah, it's going to get a little bit more competitive, 100%. I mean, professionals footballers, they've done it for how many years? It's going to kick in at some point, but hopefully it's not going to boil over too much. But yeah, it should be good fun.
Mike Dowling
46:27 - 46:41
And there's going to be a lot of the banter back. Who are you looking forward to giving it back to that can't really say much to you on the day? Is Downer going to be there? So you can kind of go, well, it's my day, you can't give it back.
Craig Dundas
46:42 - 46:56
If Downer's there, it doesn't matter if it's my day or whose day. When it's time for banter, he's the guy that won't switch it off at all. So, yeah, looking forward to it. You miss all that stuff anyway. So, yeah, it'd be good to hear the lines and stuff.
Mike Dowling
46:58 - 47:18
And sort of the changing room, I'm sure there's gonna be stories swapped. I mean, is there anyone you haven't caught up with for quite, I know you said you don't see anyone, but is there anyone you haven't caught up with that you know is coming, that you haven't spoken to for quite a long time, that you're really looking forward to seeing? Everyone I know, but is there someone in particular that you haven't seen for ages?
Craig Dundas
47:23 - 47:42
Not really. I mean, yeah, I mean, I follow a lot of them on social media, so you get to see kind of what they've been up to. So it's just really good to just see them in the flesh, really. And I get to just have a laugh with them again for how long the day lasts. Yeah, it's kind of basically everyone really.
Mike Dowling
47:43 - 48:06
Okay, we've touched on this already. So a testimonial is rare. Are you able to describe its significance to people who wouldn't necessarily know what it is? Or how do you think you've covered that? It's basically, you've been there a long time. Yeah, basically, that's all it is.
Craig Dundas
48:07 - 48:10
You've been there a long time, so yeah, air suffocating your udder, really. Fair
Mike Dowling
48:12 - 48:41
enough. And what message would you like to send to people who followed you through your journey and to come down and sort of encourage them? You do need to give a little sales power. Loads of tickets are sold already, I know that. I messaged you like day one, I got my ticket. What message would you like to give anyone who perhaps hasn't bought a ticket yet?
Craig Dundas
48:42 - 49:20
Yeah, it's just been a great day to see some players of young and old, a few of the latest squad or squad of last year was going to be there and plus a few of the players that helped in the club's success. over the recent years, bringing them back from the Ryman Premier all the way up to League Two, the FA Cup runs. And, yeah, the good days is what the club, because it went through a bad, bad kind of run the club for a couple of years. So, yeah, all those players that helped kind of stabilise the club, managers that helped stabilise the club and brought the club back to successful times are going to be there.
Craig Dundas
49:20 - 49:27
So it's a good day to enjoy and get to see everyone new. Yeah. We say at the club, yeah.
Mike Dowling
49:28 - 49:56
Beautiful. And I'm sure we can have drinks on the pitch side. I'm sure some players will be wanting a drink on the pitch. They'll have to behave themselves because Craig's there. Craig, thank you so much. It's been great chatting to you. Can't wait to see you. Good luck with the rest of the season for Everson Manure as well. And we will definitely see you on the 25th. And thank you so much.
Craig Dundas
49:57 - 49:59
Yeah, you're welcome, you're welcome. See you soon.
Mike Dowling
50:00 - 50:08
See you soon. This wraps up the episode of Sutton United Talk Time on podcast. Thanks for your attention. Thanks to Craig. Thanks everyone listening. Take care and we'll see you soon. Bye bye.
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