In this latest episode of the Sutton United Talk Time on Podcast, host Mike Dowling is joined by Johnnie and Chris to dissect the Boxing Day clash with Barnet and look ahead to Aldershot on New Year’s Day. With spirited debates, unforgettable moments, and some quintessential football banter, this conversation delves deep into the highs and lows of supporting Sutton United.
Mike Dowling
00:03 - 00:49
Hello and welcome to another episode of Sutton United Talk Time on podcast. It's the Sutton podcast in association with Lucky Star Gin. It's the last 1 of 2024. There will be no more. There will be in 2025, so don't worry. I'm your host Mike and with me on the panel today we have got both Johnny and Chris and we will be covering the draw with Barnet and we're gonna look ahead to all the shots on New Year's Day. Don't forget we love hearing from you, we love the likes, shares, retweets, thumbs ups, all the rest of it, so join the conversation at Sutton podcast on any of the socials and let us know what you think.
Mike Dowling
00:49 - 00:59
Just join the chat really. Just make other people suffer. Get the algorithm working in my favor. We're going to jump in with Chris. Can't see you. How are you?
Chris
01:00 - 01:39
Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. Yeah, I've had a bit of a hectic festive period. As I got back into the UK on Christmas Eve having been in in Belgium for a wedding. And looking ahead to the order shot game, I might not have a suit. It depends how quickly I can get it dry cleaned. Also, in case you're wondering, why is Chris wearing a suit for the football game? I tend to volunteer in the tunnel and we tend to wear suits. But yes, I have some Belgian mud, maybe. There's got something to jacket for some reason.
Chris
01:39 - 01:43
I don't know how, but anyway, right. But yes, that's me.
Mike Dowling
01:43 - 01:46
I've got a Santa suit I won't be wearing, so. You can wear that
Chris
01:46 - 01:47
if you're ready.
Mike Dowling
01:49 - 01:50
Johnny, how have you been?
Johnnie
01:51 - 02:13
Yeah, not too bad. It's that sort of wilderness period, isn't it? Between Christmas and New Year. I'm staying at the family house at the minute, so I am. It's not so much finding a suit. It's just finding any clothes really to wear on you. Anything will do. Might have to sign up in a dress or something we'll see how we get on. Yeah hopefully the yeah I can dig something out from somewhere.
Mike Dowling
02:15 - 02:30
Well I was back in the office and I was, was it yesterday, I was talking to someone and they go, oh when are you recording a podcast for this 1? I went, oh not till Friday. And they're looking at me and I went, yeah yeah no I'm back in the office and then I'll record it on Friday and they're like, so tomorrow then? It's tomorrow Friday? Okay then yeah yeah that's fine,
Chris
02:30 - 02:34
That's why I'm doing it. Are you working on Boxing Day?
Mike Dowling
02:34 - 03:00
No, no, it was yesterday I was talking to the in-laws about when I was doing this. Oh, right. Okay, fine. I was working today. About 110 people called us and I think about 100 people were like, oh, I didn't know you'd be open today. And what made you pick up the phone and call? But anyway, let's let's move on. We are going to go with the knowing me, knowing you question and the jingle. I can't see your faces on the jingle. So guide.
Johnnie
03:00 - 03:00
On the
Mike Dowling
03:00 - 03:29
jingles though. I'm a guide. So I'm imagining your faces, I'm imagining some eye rolls and shakes of the heads. But we'll start with you, Johnny. If you could design a pre-match event for fans, what would it look like? And how do you think it would benefit the match day experience for people?
Johnnie
03:30 - 04:10
Yeah, so I'm gonna be very boring. I know it's a part of the, it's actually part of the next book I'm writing. There's a little bit about stuff like that. So it's a nice question for me. And history has shown that generally pre-match events don't tend to work largely because people are there, the football. And so as much as, I mean, the Ariston were playing the other day, great band, really like them. You should check them out. The festival is a great song, but because it's a football match, I think a lot of people, even though I'd love to see the Ariston live at a gig, I guess the vibe is very, very different for the football match.
Johnnie
04:10 - 04:46
I mean, I'm not bothering with these, what's it called? National League trophy, National League Cup. I'm not bothering with those games anyway. But I think it's an interesting way of getting people to go. But I think generally at the football, say we're there for the football, I think something like music can work if you give people the choice. So the fan zone, this is more of a summer months thing. I think having a live music act in the fan zone, we're talking behind the rec end here. So probably you're looking at August to October, then maybe March, the end of the season.
Johnnie
04:46 - 05:24
Someone on there performing live and then you've got the main stand bar if you like or main stand bars for those people like myself who probably just want to go and catch up, have a chat about the football and go and watch a match. So it's a very dull answer, but I think giving people the choice of just sitting down, being boring, having a chat is good. But then, yeah, I think if we are gonna go for an option in that fan zone, I do love a bit of music. So something like that. I mean, to have a band like the Ariston playing, it is, we're very lucky.
Johnnie
05:25 - 05:40
So yeah, I think they're big things ahead for them. And so we may be looking back in 5 years and going, that's a bit weird, they were playing down here. Very good option to have. But it still, yeah, still couldn't drag me to that National League Cup game, unfortunately.
Mike Dowling
05:41 - 05:55
And not for the concert, no. Yeah, I agree with you on some of that. But on a slightly different point, excellent plug for the new book and the Ariston. That is gorgeous work. Thank you. Saved me doing
Chris
05:55 - 05:57
it. I was going to go with
Mike Dowling
05:57 - 06:08
selling all for Johnny, but I thought, no, I won't do that to him. I did that last time. Chris, same question, what would you design as a pre-match event and what would it look like?
Chris
06:09 - 07:00
Yeah, well, because I don't tend to go to pre-match events because I tend to be in the tunnel, But I would say music before, as I have very fond memories of our trip to Plymouth Argyle, the FA Cup last season. And the fan zone there was fantastic. No pun intended. We were mingling home and away. There was music. There were kind of like some ball games for the kids. I just thought it was just a wonderful atmosphere. I mean, it was helped by the fact that despite it was January and Devon, it wasn't raining, but I would say something like that would be fantastic.
Chris
07:01 - 07:15
But yeah, I just, yeah, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind music as long as it's not kind of like, you know, something kind of like, I was risking sound like
Mike Dowling
07:15 - 07:19
an old man out there. Music isn't it?
Chris
07:19 - 07:20
It is it is it is
Mike Dowling
07:20 - 07:23
a wide range of people. It is
Chris
07:23 - 08:14
it is it is it is. But yeah yeah there's yeah I think as long as it's something pleasant or a covers band or something, I would quite like that or even, you know, if it, I don't think I've known we heard the Ariston and given Johnny's recommendation, and give him a Google afterwards. But yeah, I think certainly, yeah, something fun. And I also don't mind if it's music I wouldn't particularly like, as long as I can kind of like have a conversation and kind of like drift off to somewhere else, as long as it's stuff that, you know, others would like and particularly the young folk.
Mike Dowling
08:15 - 08:27
Yeah, It is 1 of those things they keep trying different, not necessarily it's up, but different places keep trying different things. Of course, Palace with the cheerleaders and there's the little halftime competitions people do. And it's always pretty much.
Chris
08:27 - 08:28
You didn't ask how many people.
Mike Dowling
08:28 - 08:35
You did say pretty much. Pretty much, just like everyone's going, why are we doing this? We just want to yeah. I have a drink.
Chris
08:35 - 08:47
Yeah, I think I think halftime entertainment is a different question. And I'm kind of glad that we're not doing halftime entertainment this year. I could barely hear it.
Mike Dowling
08:47 - 08:55
Well, I think we should have a racer player type thing you know that American baseball thing where they race around the track right it's something like that
Chris
08:55 - 08:55
okay 1
Mike Dowling
08:55 - 08:57
of the injured players we'll get Jaden yeah
Chris
08:57 - 09:02
I was just gonna say yeah yeah yeah yeah probably still hold on to your crotch and yeah.
Mike Dowling
09:03 - 09:29
Yeah, it still beat me. But if anyone's got any thoughts on that, drop us a line and yeah, we'll just share it. I don't know. Don't say it'll work, but hey, let us know and we'll see what can be done. On to the match, Chris, for you, first of all, what were your thoughts ahead of the game and what did you think of the lineup and what was your expectations of the match?
Chris
09:29 - 10:00
Yeah, My expectations were that we, well, I was hoping that we wouldn't lose. And I was a little bit nervous given that, well, given a, I have not seen us win many this season. And I, yeah, and also given where Barnet are in the league. And I was also somewhat worried about the vegetarian food provision, because last time round, they gave me a hot dog without a sausage in it.
Mike Dowling
10:00 - 10:05
That was the, yeah. You could have just had a sausage, there's no meat in them.
Chris
10:06 - 10:36
Yes, yeah. So, yeah, when I heard the team selection, I was not suitably... I was not particularly surprised, really. I mean, I didn't see the Tamworth game, but yeah I wasn't, I wasn't shocked, but if anything I was a little sad that Joe Kizzy doesn't seem to be on the bench. I don't know whether he's injured or he's fallen out of favour. Yeah.
Mike Dowling
10:36 - 10:37
What about yourself, Jon?
Johnnie
10:39 - 11:16
Yeah, I mean, I say like, Chris, I would have taken a point at the start of the day, I think, if it, but then I wasn't, I don't, I don't feel like we're ever going to get battered. We seem to have turned a corner since those horrendous defeats against Boston and Dagenham. So I was quietly optimistic. I thought if we were getting a result, it was going to be 1 nil win from a set piece or something, or nil nil draw. I wasn't expecting the thrill. Turned out very different to what I was expecting. It was a shame not to see Josh Cody in there.
Johnnie
11:16 - 11:28
But set-up wise, more or less what I expected formation wise. I thought we were going to set up to play on a counter and I guess we started off doing that and then it all changed a bit from there.
Mike Dowling
11:31 - 11:47
So yeah, we'll stick with you. So we had a goal from Ashley to start it off. What was your view of the goal? How did you see it and what were you feeling at that point?
Johnnie
11:47 - 12:19
Yeah, I mean, I always sort of half pay attention to the game when it's on. So, I saw a little toughness, oh, a bit of space opened up, we're in here. Watching it back, it was a very good goal, wasn't it? It's brilliant from Hayden. So, It's the sort of thing you expect to see from watching the Premier League or England. John Stones, for example, carry the ball out of defence and the opposition, Barnett, don't really know how to deal with it, don't expect it, draws a couple of players in and it leaves the space in behind for Jack and Ashley and they took it very well.
Johnnie
12:20 - 12:49
We had a couple of similar things in the first half actually when we were mostly under the cosh where we seemed to get a bit of space. They pressed high, Barnett, which I think suited us for creating chances. We looked a threat at times, probably at times being the key words there. It's a very good goal. Like it's 3 good goals we scored yesterday. And it's, yeah, I think more of that would be great.
Mike Dowling
12:49 - 12:54
Yeah, absolutely. So Chris, how are you sort of feeling at the 1 there? What was your view of the goal?
Chris
12:54 - 13:33
I was shocked that we'd scored, to be honest. So I was, because it looked like Barnett were just passing for fun. And I was getting really concerned about the amount of possession we were allowing Barnet to have. I mean, yes, sure, we'd already had a couple of breakaway attempts. But I was getting nervous. And then suddenly, we have this joyous surprise. I mean, people behind me, I think, were already kind of saying, oh, yeah, we're just being so negative, et cetera, et cetera. And we're not trying anything. And we're not getting all of the ball.
Chris
13:33 - 13:43
And then suddenly that happened. But yeah, yeah, it was, I think, hilarious is probably my reaction to it.
Mike Dowling
13:44 - 13:45
I've watched the goal a couple of times.
Chris
13:45 - 13:46
Yeah, it was beautiful.
Mike Dowling
13:47 - 14:13
Yeah, what I like to do is obviously take anything I can away from that is that he shins it or does this or does that back his nose. This is great gold perfect. I think it's from credit here, But we did get paid back and I hear what you're saying, Chris, about them having a lot of the ball. But as Johnny said, I think we set up to let them have the ball and go, OK, have it, but you've got to try and hurt us with it. Yeah. And then they did.
Chris
14:13 - 14:24
I thought we were getting quite. Yeah, That was the thing. I think you have to be very, very organized. We were organized, but we weren't very, very organized. Yeah.
Mike Dowling
14:25 - 14:48
So talk us through their couple of goals. I mean, Johnny said a minute ago, we scored 3 very good goals. I don't think their goals were the the scramble at the end. I think their goals are quite good as well. But talk us through their goals to put them ahead of us at half time. As I remember them, I think I just remember them just, I have watched the highlights,
Chris
14:48 - 14:57
I just remember just feeling sinking despair. I can't talk you through them. I'm suddenly having a blank. Johnny, bail me out.
Mike Dowling
14:58 - 15:00
How did you feel about them scoring then?
Chris
15:00 - 15:24
How do I feel about them? Deeply disappointed but also not surprised. And I was kind of like going into halftime just kind of going, ah, yeah, just just thinking that, yeah, we were, we were probably going to be getting a bit of a whooping and that we'd possibly thrown away a good situation and that maybe we tried being too clever by half.
Mike Dowling
15:24 - 15:29
Yep. Johnny, what about yourself? Are you half watching the goals or? I'm fortunately
Johnnie
15:29 - 16:03
fully watching them. It's frustrating because I didn't think they'd really done much until the first goal. I think Jack maybe made 1 save at Bresnia post. But they weren't a massive fit. They had a lot of the ball. Like you say, we let them have a lot of the ball. That was always, I think, the game plan. Deflected goal, you're always like, oh, here we go. It's a bit of luck they need to turn it. The second goal was poor from our point of view, I think. Too easy to get the cross in. I think Tyler French has been brilliant the last couple of months, but probably for both the goals he might have felt he could have got a bit tighter on the first 1 and he got beat.
Johnnie
16:03 - 16:05
I think it was Tyler French who got beat
Chris
16:06 - 16:06
to the
Johnnie
16:06 - 16:18
head of the second 1. So I think maybe he'll be frustrated with that. And then at 2-1 suddenly then they looked threatening and you're thinking, Oh, if they get another before halftime, we're done for.
Chris
16:19 - 16:19
And they
Johnnie
16:19 - 16:30
missed an absolute sitter at the start of the second half as well. So it was, it wasn't looking great at that point. But then we, we did seem to turn it around pretty impressively after that.
Mike Dowling
16:30 - 16:49
We did. And this, this is where I'll have a little pop-up. Now, he's claiming an assist for Will Davis' goal because he crossed the ball for Will to control it, dance around a bit in the penalty area and then score. So I'm like, hang on, I know you passed the ball, but come on, is that an assist? But Johnny, what did you think about Will's goal?
Johnnie
16:50 - 17:23
Yeah, it took it really well. We were saying we were, it was, so I think the more touches you take, the harder it is at that point, the more defenders get back and you're expecting to see it blocked. And knowing our luck, it loops straight up to the goalkeeper or out for them to counter or something. And yeah, he finished it really well. Disguised the moment to take the shot right into the corner, keeper, no chance. It's always better when you score up the end where your fans are, isn't it? So it seems to get better scenes there.
Johnnie
17:24 - 17:45
Yeah, it's good. It's a good moment. And yeah, I think we've been coming to be honest, it had been coming. I said we deserved it. We'd had a couple of good chances where Nada should have scored really. And then Simpa probably should have scored as well up until that point. So we probably should have been level
Mike Dowling
17:45 - 17:45
and we
Johnnie
17:45 - 17:53
were thinking how many more chances are we going to get? But to our credit, we kept creating them. And yeah, at that point, definitely deserved to be level.
Mike Dowling
17:53 - 17:56
Yeah. At that point, would have taken the 2-2.
Chris
17:56 - 17:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, would have, would have.
Mike Dowling
17:59 - 18:02
What did you think of Will's goal?
Chris
18:03 - 18:54
I thought it was very well taken. I must say I was getting a little bit frustrated by Will because I was feeling that he was coming second best out of a lot of kind of like challenges and everything. And I was just, yeah, I mean I'm not saying he wasn't trying, he was definitely trying, but it just, I was amazed it was him that scored it, just because I just kept on feeling that Barnett had his number From what I was saying. But yeah, so he then did manage to go back to the general being slightly overpowered by Barnet defenders kind of thing for the rest of the game from what I saw.
Mike Dowling
18:54 - 18:55
Only 1 chance.
Chris
18:55 - 18:57
Oh yeah, yeah, only need 1 chance.
Mike Dowling
18:57 - 19:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And arguably, although maybe not the best aesthetically, but for what we want, possibly 1 of the best goals because Basar just literally ran the bloke down, panicked him, and absolutely was pressing and doing exactly what you want. How was that goal for you? And did you expect it? Did you see that 1 coming from?
Chris
19:23 - 19:38
Didn't see that 1 coming at all. No, delirious. I can't see any way to describe it. It was, yeah, amazing. And yeah, I just I just say that he's on loan.
Mike Dowling
19:41 - 19:42
Until the end of the season.
Chris
19:42 - 19:43
Yeah, well,
Mike Dowling
19:43 - 19:45
we don't know these things.
Chris
19:45 - 19:46
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Dowling
19:46 - 19:52
People are saying about Netta's. Well, how can we how can we persuade him to stay here? We'll keep loving him. You never know what's going to happen.
Chris
19:52 - 19:53
Yeah, you never know.
Mike Dowling
19:54 - 19:58
Johnny, how did you see that third goal to put us in the lead?
Johnnie
19:58 - 20:32
Yeah, through, well, quite good limbs, probably ended up, nearly ended up the road forward from where I was. It's the sort of goal, we never seem to get that sort of luck, we haven't done in a while, I think. So it's quite nice. And I think last season we got used to us defending like that every single week. So, she was on the other foot and it was good. It can't have been long after the second goal, actually. We were still catching our breath after the second goal. Really good moment. We said that for the next 10 minutes after that, I thought we sat really deep in it.
Johnnie
20:32 - 20:33
We weren't great to be honest.
Chris
20:34 - 20:34
We were
Johnnie
20:34 - 21:06
always saying, oh, well, they're going to score, aren't they? They're going to score. We were like, well, if they do, at least we would have had that moment to have gone 3-2 up. So, yeah, it was good. I mean, We've not had too much joy away from home recently. Not scored too many goals. So to have 3 away at a team that are... They're a good team, Barnett. They play nice football and they'll be up there at the end of the season. So yeah, certainly a nice moment to go ahead.
Mike Dowling
21:06 - 21:20
We did survive that 10 minutes. We survived the next 10 minutes. We survived 8 of the next 9. So, Johnny, I mean, 8 minutes, first of
Johnnie
21:20 - 21:21
all,
Mike Dowling
21:21 - 21:34
and the free kick, second of all, and the goal. How have you viewed those 3 things and how did you feel about it?
Johnnie
21:34 - 22:10
Yeah, well, I'm going to surprise you all and defend the match officials on 1 of those 2 things, because it's never a free kick. I think he was, as the game went on, the referee gave softer and softer fouls. I don't think he would be giving those our way. It's a tendency to give things to the losing team as if he's getting his job confused with making a game of it rather than making a correct decision. So I think that was poor. The 8 minutes, I think with such a... Do you remember the start of last season where they said we're going to add the time on where the ball's actually out of play?
Johnnie
22:10 - 22:35
And for about 2 weeks we had consensus and now it's just like put your finger in the air, see which way the wind's blowing. I mean, no 1 seems to be able to agree on how much added time there should be. I mean, we play a 90 minute game of football. I think on average the ball's in play for 60 minutes. So you should be having logically 15 minutes of added time at the end of each half. So I don't think you can really complain. Some match officials would have given 5 minutes, some would have given 8.
Johnnie
22:35 - 23:09
So I don't think that's a problem. I think as a sport that you get, is it IFAB that do the rules, something like that. And they come up with all these stupid ideas like replacing throw-ins with kick-ins and stuff that doesn't need fixing. And there's actually such an obvious problem. I think we'll look back in 30 years and it will be like the back pass rule or 3 points for a win. You'll think, how did we ever have it with 2 points for a win and where a goalkeeper can pick up a back pass? We were all sagging off Tamworth for time wasting on Saturday and now we were doing it, to be honest.
Johnnie
23:09 - 23:42
We had Jackson's go down. Every keeper now goes down with a pretend injury because they're the only player that doesn't have to go off the pitch for treatment afterwards. Every team does it, like we know this, and we know we're as good slash bad as any other team. Until you have it so that you're, you have say 60 minutes on the clock and the clock stops when the ball's out of play, only then will it not benefit a team to waste time. So we cannot really complain at the 8 minutes. I don't think I think we were unlucky because 9 times out of 10, it would have been 5 or 6, we'd have got away with it.
Johnnie
23:43 - 23:59
While it's so subjective, the added time, I don't think you can blame the referee for that. But oh my God, it was never a free kick. I think without the referee's interference, we'd have been walking away with 3 points.
Mike Dowling
24:01 - 24:01
And
Chris
24:02 - 24:03
yeah I felt it was 5.
Mike Dowling
24:05 - 24:05
I've made
Chris
24:06 - 24:06
a
Mike Dowling
24:06 - 24:21
couple of good saves and they'd hit the post as well. Yes. Are we Are we complaining that he kind of didn't hold it or are you letting that 1 go, Johnny?
Johnnie
24:24 - 24:53
Yeah, yes. And I mean, it's a mistake. It's there's no 2 ways about it. It's probably 1 of the first, if not the first big mistake that he's made. And it's not an easy ball to deal with. I actually think, I could just be talking bollocks here, but I think if it's not the last minute of the game and he's trying to catch it and go down and hold it and waste time. He probably tips over the bar because it's quite a high ball. But I think he's thinking, I don't want to give them another chance.
Johnnie
24:53 - 25:08
I want this to be it. It's a this or nothing moment and that's what costs him. Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's a slight mistake and they were quick to react. We weren't. And the guy nearly hit their keeper and
Mike Dowling
25:08 - 25:09
didn't score
Johnnie
25:09 - 25:17
in the end, which would have been the ultimate slice of luck. But yeah, it's a mistake, but it's not as glaring as...
Mike Dowling
25:18 - 25:19
We've had in the past.
Johnnie
25:20 - 25:35
Yeah, had in the recent and not so recent past. So I think it's at this level as well, right? I mean, no, if he didn't make mistakes, if he played 9 in the National League, it's just frustrating. And the spotlight's on you and it's the 99th minute, unfortunately.
Mike Dowling
25:35 - 25:43
Yes, exactly. That's always a newsworthy thing. And what about yourself, Chris? What do you think of the decisions leading up to the goal and the goal?
Chris
25:43 - 26:09
Yeah, well, I think, I must say, I thought it was 5 minutes rather than 8. I mean, because like Jack had been down injured or yeah, or using time or what have you. But certainly, yeah, that I, yeah, I was, I was frustrated. There was a sense of inevitability given that we had had our post rattled.
Mike Dowling
26:11 - 26:12
Though
Chris
26:12 - 27:01
Jack played really, really well yesterday, I thought. I mean, which seems a bit strange to say for a match in which he'd let him free, but he He made some amazing saves. So I must say yeah, it's It's tough, but I mean I think you can't blame it all on him. I think like a defense as well should have done more. I must say I am getting more and more frustrated and concerned with Tyler, who I think is a bit of a weak point is my feeling. But, but, but yeah, I, yeah, I was just frustrated.
Chris
27:01 - 27:25
But also I was trying to remember, look it's a point here, nobody has beaten Barnet at home this season. So a point is fine, a point is well done but it was just but like it was just having 2 of the other points snatched away. It's like the
Mike Dowling
27:25 - 27:27
Papa John's cup, we had it.
Chris
27:27 - 27:28
Yeah, we had it, we had it, we
Mike Dowling
27:28 - 28:22
had it. Yeah, I mean, as Johnny said, it's an entertaining game. Johnny also mentioned that we tightened up on defense fairly recently and yet in the last few games. We've let in free goals twice Yeah, but we scored free goals twice. So yeah, oh are we I mean Some small tiny mistakes. I mean every goal is avoidable. You could say that all the goals we scored are avoidable, but are we happy with the defense? I know you've mentioned, you feel Tyler's a bit of a weak point, Johnny said he thought he had a bad game but he's improved greatly recently, not a bad game but bad moments in the game, sorry Johnny to paraphrase you there, but how do we feel, do we feel happy defensively, offensively, do we feel like we need to strengthen in the, well, it's not the window, but it's where the league club can start letting people go.
Mike Dowling
28:22 - 28:26
So Chris, what do you think is going to happen over the next few weeks?
Chris
28:27 - 28:56
I would like us to strengthen up top For sure. And I think maybe getting a strong midfielder in who can dip back, that would be helpful. But yeah, I do think a calmer head would be handy. I know people have kept on saying that this season and I think it's true. A calmer head or 2 would be handy.
Mike Dowling
28:56 - 28:59
Perfect. Jonny, what about yourself? What do you
Johnnie
28:59 - 29:38
feel? Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I have probably 2 main criticisms at the minute and 1 of them is the squad balance. We've got loads of defenders, certainly when Alex Kirk comes back as well, but we've got 1 striker in the entire squad really, given that we're playing Ashley Nadesan on the wing, if you like, essentially the midfield. I don't really think we've got enough cover in midfield either, certainly in the more attacking midfield positions. So it's, yeah, I think an extra midfielder definitely another striker because I think I like I like what David's doing.
Johnnie
29:38 - 29:42
He works hard but because he's playing basically 90 minutes every game and
Chris
29:42 - 29:42
I
Johnnie
29:42 - 30:20
mean like and Nadder's as well. It's absolutely knackered probably in the 70th minute, but I'm not sure we've got a player that comes on in that position at that point. I think maybe he delayed putting on Nanna Boateng because he's not as much of a presence defending set pieces or just generally defensively. Dylan De Silva did well when he came on, so maybe he's the answer to the more attacking midfield roles. Maybe now Jadon's out, we need someone else to play and Sidgew out as well. You've only really got Finlay and I suppose you've got Lewis, centre-complainer as well.
Johnnie
30:21 - 30:41
I think defensively we're fine. We'll stick with our defence. I think Alex Kirk's our best defender, so when he's back it'll be nice. But a little bit more in midfield and going forward would be lovely. I think we can't go half a season of 1 striker, I'm sorry, but it's not going to work.
Mike Dowling
30:41 - 31:24
No. Well, I think Akoli was only up to January. I'm not sure Mill will want to continue if he's not getting as much game time. Charlie, I think, also was only to January, but I think I don't know. Yeah, but half time reports, so we're halfway through the just over halfway through the season. Johnny, what do you think we I mean, we're dead on mid table. So it's 9 wins, 9 losses, 6 draws, and with 12. So it's kind of where we most well, a lot of us expecting us to be. But what are your thoughts on the halfway point?
Johnnie
31:24 - 31:59
Yeah, I'd say slightly disappointing. I was hoping to be pushing the playoffs. If You asked me at the start of the season, I don't know if anyone did, or if there's any record of this. Hopefully I'm not lying through my teeth here, but I think if you'd asked me at the start of the season, I'd have been aiming for seventh or above, or realistically seventh. I don't think we're becoming much higher than that. So the playoffs has got to be the aim. I think I'm not massively surprised we are where we are. I think we're, I don't see it changing much if I'm being optimistic or pessimistic to be honest.
Johnnie
32:00 - 32:28
We've shown good signs at times haven't we? There's been games where we've been fantastic or just parts of games where we've been fantastic. I thought the first 20 minutes of the second half against Barna, we actually played them off the park and they're in the league. But we have problems and that we have spells of games where we are just not in it at all. We struggle. My other main criticism is that we actually, once teams sit in and defend against us on a lead, we do not seem to know how to break them down.
Johnnie
32:28 - 33:05
I think the Altingham game, we spent 80 minutes of the game behind. In the Tamworth game, we spent half an hour of the game behind. So that's 110 minutes, matters at my strong point. And yeah, we didn't, I don't think we had a shot on target in that time, which is terrible, to be honest. You need to be doing a lot more in that situation because as soon as we go goal down, whether it's a set piece or counter or something dreadful against Aldershot on New Year's Day. They say we go a goal down against Aldershot, they're probably going to sit in against us.
Johnnie
33:05 - 33:20
They'll probably come and play for a point, never mind if they go 1-0 up. We're going to need to find ways to deal with that better than we can at the minute. If we can deal with that, if we can work on that and get a couple of players and maybe we can push for the post. We're not far off
Chris
33:21 - 33:21
but
Johnnie
33:21 - 33:25
it's yeah we are very mid-table at the minute I think.
Mike Dowling
33:26 - 33:53
I definitely did say I would like a playoff push, not necessarily make it So I'm quite happy with that. I think I also said as long as we avoid relegation, if we get promotion, I think I covered all bases at some point or other. I'll just find the record of which 1 suits and I'll put that out, go and see, I told you. Chris, what do you think, sort of half-term report, where do you think we're about, where we should be?
Chris
33:53 - 34:52
We, well, we have to bear in mind this is pretty much a new squad, and so people, the players didn't know each other, didn't know their style. And so I'd kind of think that they are gelling better. So I think that we're in a relatively good position. And yes, sure, I would love us to be further up the table. And, but I would just, yeah, I think I would like maybe some folks to be a bit more patient. That might be a controversial thing to say, but I'm in the tunnel. I hear people shouting things angrily at our management.
Chris
34:54 - 35:47
And I particularly remember people shouting during the EBSFLEET game, the FA Trophy game, when we were losing 3-1. And again, we went on to win on penalties, especially, but still. But so we won. But yeah, I think. It. Yeah, we we just. Yeah, the players are gelling. If it doesn't work this season, I think there's a really good chance it's gonna work next, I think. As long as we, yeah, As long as I kind of think yeah the management stays and everything and that's yeah. And I would just.
Mike Dowling
35:47 - 35:51
Yeah. We're going to go on beating in 2025. There you go.
Chris
35:51 - 35:53
Well, I'm not saying that
Mike Dowling
35:54 - 36:28
We got a great run, that's it. Yeah Right. So there was a Couple of points people are making up on they were kind of saying last second of the game should be a better game management. There was lots of talk on the referee because it's always a nice easy 1 to blame but it did lead on to an article which came out this week which I thought Johnny was going to bring up earlier, I was like, no, you can't. I haven't got time to talk about it yet, was the idea they're going to do football video support like a VAR light.
Mike Dowling
36:29 - 36:54
At first it's like, nope, don't want it. Don't want that at all. But it's actually the version of VAR I've been saying it should be, it should be coaches giving a challenge to say, no, I disagree with that decision. And the referee then having to look back at it and saying, yes, you can have that or no, it's standing. And I think you get 2, wasn't sure if it's 2 per half or 2 per game actually I can't remember now a per match yeah
Johnnie
36:56 - 37:35
we'd still be in Barnet now if they had that it's a dreadful idea I don't This is this is what I meant when I said that they're trying to fix problems. Aren't they trying to come up with all sorts of ridiculous things that we don't need? And actually, there's quite a simple fix for quite a big problem that they're not interested in. I don't understand. I mean, I guess that they've got Arsene Wenger working and they've got to be planning to do something and this is the sort of crazy, well it's not his fault, the VA I like for the AFL I guess, but the sort of people that are in these jobs that they I think are trying rather too hard to justify their role.
Johnnie
37:36 - 37:39
I think it's a terrible idea. I don't think we'll ever see it.
Mike Dowling
37:40 - 38:08
I think the idea is to limit some of that things of managers blaming the referees. Because if the manager comes out and says, oh, the referee made a terrible mistake there, they could say, well, hang on, why didn't you challenge it at the point? If you think it was a bad decision, why didn't you challenge it at that point? And if you're if you're challenging every single damn thing and you're going to lose them. So I don't know. I'm not I don't. Not immediately. I think for big calls
Chris
38:08 - 38:09
it works, I would think.
Mike Dowling
38:11 - 38:14
So I watch cricket and
Chris
38:14 - 39:10
tennis and there I think it doesn't ruin the game, but certainly like for, yeah, I mean I seldom watch the Premier League, but certainly like, you know, I do get a bit bored of sort of, yeah, after a goal has been scored, waiting, right, is that going to go to VAR? Whereas if there is a limited number of appeals, I think that that could work. Yeah, I mean, then that people were casting doubt about it in tennis, and it worked. But VAR, as we see in the Premier League, doesn't work. But also, Johnny, when you were saying that it was a solution to a problem, paraphrasing a bit, but that's kind of just, I must say, I remember Frank Lampard's non-goal in the World Cup.
Chris
39:10 - 39:14
I mean, this is 1 of the things that we're supposed to try to address.
Johnnie
39:15 - 39:44
Goal line technology is objective, and that's why it works. I mean, this is, to use your cricket example, Chris, you have umpires call to where it's too tight to call and they don't do that in football, which is ridiculous. I mean, some of the off cycles you get, there was 1 of the games, the Premier League, the Liverpool game last night and they checked like 2 offside. I think it was like 4 minutes 37 seconds. It was ridiculous. Yeah and they should just be able to, it's meant to be, it was meant to be clear and obvious VAR.
Johnnie
39:44 - 40:16
This isn't a Premier League. The league in world football, so the most lucrative sport in the world, the most lucrative league in the most lucrative sport, they still can't get it right. Clear and obvious with offsides should be if you look at it and there's daylight and you look at it and within 2 seconds, alright, he's offside. The very fact that you're drawing lines means that's not clear and obvious. Most penalty calls are the same. You'll have a VAR decision over to... I mean, the Premier League release a report right every week and in that report, there'll be like this VAR decision was right, this 1 was wrong.
Johnnie
40:16 - 40:41
How on earth are they getting the VAR decision wrong? Every week, they're doing it every week, it's unbelievable. So if they can't get it right in the Premier League, what makes anyone think they're going to get it right in the EFL? It's crazy. I don't understand how anyone can look at how much of a disaster it's been in the Premier League. I think we're going to put an even cheaper version of this. Yeah. It's going to work fine.
Chris
40:42 - 41:16
I think it's the number, I think it's the number, So it's the first I've heard of having kind of like a limited number of kind of like appeals. I think it's that, no pun intended, appeals to me. The fact that, you know, the management or whoever will need to make a decision say right. OK we're going to appeal that decision. Yeah that's that is I think the crucial difference. So you're not standing around in Goodison Park for kind of like 4 minutes waiting to decide whether somebody was offside.
Mike Dowling
41:16 - 41:23
It's not it's not every decision and that that's as you said that it wasn't ever supposed to be every single decision was scrutinized.
Johnnie
41:23 - 41:56
I think the appeal system will be worse because you've got 22A game as Rick. So you've got 2 a game. You've not used it yet. It's the 85th minute and the referee's free kick on the halfway line and you're going to spend 3 minutes deciding whether it's a foul on the halfway line. I just think it's stupid. If you had 2 a season it would be more reasonable. Maybe if you've had a goal disallowed for a side that's 3 yards onside then fair enough. Even then I think it's ridiculous. So I go England home and away, so I'm a match-going sufferer of VAR.
Johnnie
41:57 - 42:24
It's dreadful. I mean, the Euros final, I thought Saka looked offside when the ball threw, So Palmer puts the ball in the back of it. I don't even really celebrate because I'm thinking, well, it's just going to get this. Like we'd had a goal disallowed in Slovakia game. That's crap. I've spent a month in Germany at a tournament, spent God knows how much money and 1 of the biggest games of football I've ever seen in my life. And I don't feel like I can celebrate a goal because it ruins it. It ruins the experience as a much going fan.
Johnnie
42:24 - 42:56
I can tell you that as a much going fan of a big team, if you like, England. And the 1 thing I, the 1 thing, 1 of the things I like about watching Sutton is that you don't get that interference. You score a goal. The celebrations we're talking about for Will Davis' goal and Topalov's goal. I mean, say in the build-up, Ashinada-san was borderline offside. I don't think he was, but for argument's sake, he's borderline offside. So you score the equalising goal, you all go mental, celebrate, and then the managers referred it. So you celebrate.
Johnnie
42:56 - 43:14
You stood there for 3 minutes waiting to know if you'd been celebrating. It's crap. It's absolutely crap. There's a match going, fan. Even if this system works perfectly, which it won't, I would say I wouldn't want it anywhere near Sutton. I'm very opinionated on this, as you
Mike Dowling
43:14 - 43:16
can see. You could argue Topalov's goal...
Johnnie
43:16 - 43:17
As much as possible.
Mike Dowling
43:18 - 43:28
Yeah, that Topalov goal, the 3-2 goal, I suppose you could make a case, did he foul that defender? Exactly. Was there a tiny little push?
Johnnie
43:28 - 43:46
Yeah, and then we're still sat there now. Even if they had overturned it, it's not like we'd be sat here and we wouldn't discuss it. We wouldn't be here and say, oh, it's just as well they've got technology because they would have missed that. We'd still be arguing the point. So, it's not going to, it causes more problems in itself.
Mike Dowling
43:46 - 44:30
Fair enough. We're going to finish with a match, you'll be pleased to know. So we are just going to finish up with the good, the bad and the funny. So music, hopefully. The Johnny I can't remember if you've done 1 of these or not. So basically it's the whole match day experience. You can be like Neil and include your travel woes if you wish. What was good about the Boxing Day game?
Johnnie
44:31 - 45:14
I think the shout out to the travelling support, the younger fans especially, which I'm no longer a part of I guess. But yeah, they travelled in their numbers, especially given it's a boxing day, the travel is difficult. Yeah, I think it's nearly 300 there. Loud in voice out some of the home fans, even when we were losing, by the way, which we need to do more at home. Yeah, supporting the team, not actually losing part. But yeah, so I thought that was a bonus to the matchday experience from a percentage. And the amount of young fans we get now, I think you can only look at it and think the future's bright.
Mike Dowling
45:14 - 45:42
Yeah, It's actually kind of crazy. I keep praising him, I keep praising this lot. Steve Sallis said himself yesterday, thanks to all the fans today, incredible noise. So that was just a reply. It wasn't a great big moment trying to make something for himself. But yeah, that definitely sounded good. Chris, what about yourself? What was good for you?
Chris
45:44 - 46:27
So I think seeing Steve Salas just wondering over and kind of like applauding everybody. And he was, yeah, it was a little bit odd. I don't think I saw Morrison coming over and applauding folks, but also I think people were trying to keep him away from the ref. But the, yeah, and I think the good, generally, is, I mean, I left the match yesterday feeling kind of ultimately I think uplifted and I hope that we can use that as a spur for bigger things in yeah for the rest of the season because we did so well.
Chris
46:28 - 46:28
Absolutely
Mike Dowling
46:28 - 46:30
and what was bad for you Chris?
Chris
46:31 - 47:16
What was bad? Well so actually 1 thing that I saw coming in, the stewards were kind of like, were being quite fussy about kind of like drums and various other things. And, and so I, I don't know whether anybody had reached out to Barnett beforehand. It seems as if people were intimating that they had. But a bit of me just going, oh, come on. It's not as if you're in like a residential. There aren't people that live right behind that stand. But yeah, so that was frustrating a little bit.
Mike Dowling
47:16 - 47:27
I don't know for certain, but I'm guessing if it was said, he tends to make sure all the boxes are ticked. So, yeah, yeah, I definitely think he would offer. Johnny, what was
Johnnie
47:28 - 47:43
I was going to echo what you said, Chris, I thought the shooting was was poor. I mean, so Seb had emailed ahead and asked about having a drumming. I don't think he got a reply, but they had a drumming home end. So I
Mike Dowling
47:43 - 47:44
don't know
Johnnie
47:44 - 48:14
what sort of rules they're using there. And It wasn't like our place where 1 of the ends is close to a residential, but I mean, the drum was in next to the tube line and ours would have been in next to an AstroTurf pitch, I think. I don't know who that would have been disturbing, But the search on the way in as well was ridiculous. I mean, I had to unzip my jacket. I mean, we're not exactly a club with a known hooligan element. We're not exactly Lazio. I mean, it was a more rigorous search.
Johnnie
48:14 - 48:44
I think that I'd been through England even at some of these places you go and there's some headlines about hooligans on the rampage and you still don't get that level of checks. I mean it would have been a pain in the arse if you were turning up just before kickoff. You don't really expect to go through that much hassle and certainly the only other club that's been worse than that was Port Vale, which was ridiculous. I'll never forgive them for that, even though it wasn't actually that important. But yeah, the stewarding was poor and it's off-putting.
Johnnie
48:45 - 48:57
I say the stewarding, it's just those 2 things, the drum on entry and yeah, all the searches, it just makes you think, if you are gonna choose to give a game a miss next season,
Chris
48:59 - 49:00
is that 24 quid for
Johnnie
49:00 - 49:13
a ticket as well, by the way, which is ridiculous. And food was crap as well. For a cheeseburger for £7.50, you'd at least expect it to be good. So not a good match day experience if anyone from Barnet is listening in.
Mike Dowling
49:15 - 49:46
That's 1 of the things that I know we've targeted for the away support. I know I remember that tweet and we all remember that tweet with the Bradford 1. But it was 1 of the things they basically said is we want when the fix just come out people going, yes, I'm going to Sutton. Because they had a good time with the stewards and so on.
Johnnie
49:46 - 49:47
But what was funny Johnny? Funny? Oh god
Mike Dowling
49:47 - 49:48
I've got 1 I've got 1 Johnny.
Johnnie
49:48 - 49:49
Oh god Chris save me.
Chris
49:49 - 50:08
Yeah okay so I'll actually say 1 of the stewards. So Stuart, I think his name is Michael. He was down at the front and he was fantastic. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look like
Mike Dowling
50:08 - 50:10
a blip from the dots. I'm reliably told.
Chris
50:11 - 51:04
And yeah, and he he just he he gave He gave as good as he got. He was lovely with the fans, particularly the young lads. And he was brilliant. But also as well, he's the kind of steward and in a way and the home fan wouldn't mind either, because it's not like he was kind of like guessing them to be. He wasn't joining in the cheering. Yes. So, yeah, he just was a good guy. And and I said, yeah, he made me laugh a few times I mean I came in like or 10 minutes before kickoff so but I got the impression that there'd been quite a bit of kind of like exchange but that it had been good natured.
Chris
51:04 - 51:06
Yeah, I think we've
Mike Dowling
51:06 - 51:07
had him before and I think he
Johnnie
51:07 - 51:08
does have
Mike Dowling
51:08 - 51:10
a home as well doesn't he Johnny?
Johnnie
51:10 - 51:16
He did our game at Woking away and I think he said, I can't remember his name I feel bad, I want to say
Chris
51:16 - 51:18
Luke. Michael?
Johnnie
51:19 - 51:21
I think that's his actual name.
Chris
51:21 - 51:22
No, I think that's
Johnnie
51:22 - 51:27
the star's lookalike, Michael Van Gogh. Oh, OK. Oh, OK. Coincidence if it was.
Chris
51:27 - 51:28
Yeah, fair enough.
Johnnie
51:28 - 51:28
But yeah,
Mike Dowling
51:28 - 51:30
he... Yeah, Luke. Luke.
Johnnie
51:31 - 51:31
Is it Luke?
Mike Dowling
51:32 - 51:33
Yeah, he tweeted out.
Johnnie
51:33 - 51:49
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he said, I was sat under the best fans we've had come to Woking. And he did 1 of a couple of a home games, I think. So he must be, because I used to work as a steward myself and you go around to different agencies. So he's obviously, And most stewards would work for more than 1. You just go where the work is.
Chris
51:49 - 51:49
And
Johnnie
51:49 - 52:11
it's like 0 hours. So he's managed to find a way to get on someone to sign away games as well by the looks of it. So yeah, we had him before, lovely bloke. And yeah, so he does his job obviously, but he won't be heavy handed. He'll be friendly with everyone. And yeah, that's the sort of stewarding that you want to get out of football rather than being treated automatically like you're a criminal.
Mike Dowling
52:11 - 52:15
Yeah. And also if he then comes up to you and goes, Johnny, you've been a bit of a knob mate.
Johnnie
52:15 - 52:16
Yeah. You're going to feel a
Mike Dowling
52:16 - 52:17
little bit more like, oh, yeah.
Johnnie
52:18 - 52:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike Dowling
52:19 - 52:40
Yeah. He he tweeted yesterday back on the grind, working a shift at Barnet. Always special looking after the Southern United fans, the greatest fan base in non league. Dutted they conceded the win in the 97th minute. Yeah. Oh, geez, Luke. It was 99th. But yeah, so that's good. And Johnny, I'll keep that 1 for you as well.
Johnnie
52:41 - 52:43
Yeah, I can't believe it.
Mike Dowling
52:44 - 52:55
Right, we can have a very quick chat. Aldershot, again, disorganized at the moment, so I haven't got any of their fans on but what do you guys feel about that game? We can have a few days rest. I used to live
Chris
52:55 - 52:59
near Aldershot so maybe, yes, I've been to Aldershot a few times.
Mike Dowling
53:00 - 53:18
Players are going to be having a sort of a Christmasy over the next couple of days because obviously they've got the weekend off, which is great. But what do you think, Johnny, we'll start with you. What do you sort of think about the game? How do you see it going? Starting off 2025 with a bang?
Johnnie
53:18 - 53:50
Yeah, I think if we're looking at the ambition of chasing a playoffs, you look at your next few fixtures and you think you've got to be winning the majority, if not all of them, which I don't want to tempt fate, but We're playing teams towards the bottom of the division, aren't we? We've got Aldershot, we've got Fylde, we've got Wheeldstone. We've tended to do well against the bottom teams, struggle against the top teams. There'll be a tough test and a decent result against Woking. They're not in the best form and They're probably where I've not seen them play this season.
Johnnie
53:52 - 54:21
The league table doesn't lie after 22, 23 games. So you've got to be looking at winning it. Having said that, we've probably said the same thing for Tamworth and they well beat us to be honest. It's this challenge that I said about playing against a team that's going to defend. If they take the lead, how do we deal with that? We're going to have the creative tools to get at them to turn it around. They won't play the same. Maybe they do. I don't know, but I doubt they'll play the same high line that Barnett did.
Johnnie
54:22 - 54:54
So a tough game. Yeah, gotta make sure we score first, but then again, we would have said that for Tamworth and it isn't any good. So yeah, fingers crossed we can be switched on for the whole 90 minutes this time rather than the first half and then the last half an hour and forget that we've got to play the first 15 minutes of the second half as well. But hopefully we can go up the lead table a little bit in these next few games because again, not to look too far ahead, but you walk away and you're thinking, yeah, on paper, a slightly tougher test.
Mike Dowling
54:55 - 55:04
Yeah. What's your score prediction, Johnny? It's an early 1. Obviously we don't, you play the game anyway, so you can tell what you like, I don't get it.
Johnnie
55:06 - 55:09
I think we're due a clean sheet, aren't we? 2 nil win.
Mike Dowling
55:09 - 55:15
2 nil win. Lovely. Nice. Chris, how do you see it going and a score prediction for you?
Chris
55:16 - 55:24
Yeah, I... Hopefully we will do alright.
Mike Dowling
55:25 - 55:29
I mean, I've not seen Aldershot play either. I mean, Aldershot do tend to be a bit
Chris
55:29 - 55:48
of a physical side, so I think it could be a bit bruising affair. I mean, just being historically, older games tend to be quite physical. Yeah, maybe 1 nil to us. It'd be nice to have a comfortable margin of victory, but yeah
Mike Dowling
55:49 - 55:55
I'm not gonna go for a comfortable game at all. I'm going for 2-3. We're gonna win 2-3
Chris
55:56 - 55:57
Oh, okay, fine.
Mike Dowling
55:57 - 56:01
The last 5-10 minutes. We're gonna be under the caution. Everyone's gonna be panicking about
Chris
56:02 - 56:07
Well, I'm working in my day job the next day, so quite like it to be moderately calm.
Mike Dowling
56:07 - 56:16
I'm looking forward to it. However, I'm not thinking that I should have put that day off because playing football on 1 day and going to work the next day just doesn't seem right. I know the nighttime games you do that, but it just doesn't seem right during the
Chris
56:16 - 56:18
day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike Dowling
56:18 - 56:52
Weird. But we're going to wrap up this episode. Thank you both very, very much. As always, we appreciate everyone's attention and feedback. Let us know what you think about the Knowing Me, Knowing You section. If you could design a match day event or a pre-match event and what would it look like and why do you think it'll benefit. Follow, like and share on all socials at Sutton Podcast. Let us know what you think of this episode and subscribe, give me the thumbs up and we are back some time after the all shot match, I can't remember when, with Dan and Paul, I think I've told them about it.
Mike Dowling
56:52 - 57:08
But as always, thank you to our sponsors Lucky Star Gin, a big thank you to our panel today, Chris and Johnny, thanks to you for the listeners, and I hope you've enjoyed this episode of Sutton Podcast and I hope everyone has a perfect 2025. Take care and we'll catch up soon. Thank you. Bye bye.
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