Welcome back to another lively episode of Sutton United Talk Time on Podcast—your favourite Sutton United fan podcast! This week, I'm joined by regular guests Johnnie and Mark as we chat through Sutton's recent 1-0 victory over Maidenhead United, player performances, and of course, our abundance of wingers making selection a pleasant headache for manager Steve Morison.
Mike Dowling
00:06 - 00:36
Hello and welcome to another episode of such united talk time on podcast It's a Sutton podcast in association with lucky star gene I'm your host Mike and this week. We are being joined by Johnny and Mark Johnny's kind of just given podcast theme away. We're saying yeah, we've got the job done didn't we so that and That's it. Take care. We'll see you soon. Don't forget the engagement. We love you. Liking, sharing, tweeting, all the others, or Xing, or whatever I call it now, giving us all the thumbs up and the rest of it. Thank you very much.
Mike Dowling
00:37 - 00:52
Mark, how are you? Been a couple of weeks for you, but how have you been? Yeah, I've been good, thanks. Enjoying good weather. Lovely, yes. Very nice spring weather. And Johnny, been a bit longer for you, but how have you been recently?
Johnnie
00:53 - 01:10
Yeah, can't complain. Nice and busy. So we'll hopefully have some news to announce on another book within the next couple of weeks. Fingers crossed. And then started a new job last week as well. So yeah, the football is always a nice way to relax amongst all the chaos.
Mike Dowling
01:11 - 01:22
I started another job as well. It's like, accidentally, I seem to become quite important. I don't understand what I've done here. I just don't get it. What are you doing now?
Johnnie
01:23 - 01:38
Same company, but just slightly different role. So yeah, a lot busier, all finances. It's not the most exciting thing in the world. I won't bore you with the details, but it's a good little progression for me. So yeah, very, very happy with it.
Mike Dowling
01:39 - 02:19
Excellent. Well done. Thank you. We're going to do the knowing me, knowing you question, which I sent you a couple of hours ago. So hopefully you've read it. But first of all, obviously the jingle. So the question is, how did you become a fan of Sutton United? So you can take this however you like. You can be the first game, or when did you realise that, hmm, actually, this is going to be a big part of my life after however many games? Mark, we'll start with you. How did you become a fan of Sutton United?
Mark
02:19 - 03:02
Well, I've got family connections with Sutton. My mum was born and bred in Sutton. She was never particularly into football, but her two brothers, obviously my uncles, were both at Sutton and Farnham way back in the 1940s when they were lads. So I was kind of aware of Sutton United for quite a long time before I started supporting them. I grew up in Farnham in Surrey, so I went to school, and my local club then was Aldershot, So I went to a few Aldershot games in the 70s and 80s without really becoming a sort of supporter, but I sort of followed their results.
Mark
03:02 - 03:45
Then in November 1987, what happened, it was Sutton United against Aldershot in the first round of the FA Cup. I'd never been to Sutton's ground prior to that date, but I thought I'd go along. I went with my uncles and one of my cousins, And actually, it went as a neutral, you know, I just thought it was an interesting game. But of course, Sutton famously won 3-0, deservedly so. And from that point on, I was a Sutton supporter and I went to the second round game up Peterborough, which we won 3-1. And then we drew Middlesbrough at home in the third round, a one-all draw, down the green lane, went to that, didn't get to the replay after Edson Park, which it sure was.
Mark
03:46 - 03:51
but I started going to a few league games that season as well and things sort of developed from there. Beautiful.
Mike Dowling
03:52 - 04:16
I was about a year after you. But I do always tell people, you've got to be really careful to the first kind of match you take your kids to, because my brother-in-law took Josh to Tottenham Man United, and Man United absolutely ruined Tottenham and Josh's Man United score. It was like, should have taken him to two local games. Never mind that. What about yourself, Johnny? How did you become a fan of Tottenham United?
Johnnie
04:17 - 04:45
Yeah, I'm glad this is a question. It's actually a really good story. So my dad's a Middlesbrough fan. My parents are both from up North, moved down to London before I was born. So I went to primary school and everyone at primary school was either an Arsenal or Chelsea or Man United fan. Those were like the three teams that were winning stuff around them. So Arsenal were like my team as a six or five or six year old. But my dad didn't want me growing up supporting Arsenal. He wanted me to support like a proper team, so he put it.
Speaker 3
04:45 - 04:46
So
Johnnie
04:46 - 05:18
he took me to all these local clubs. We went to, I think my first match was actually Leatherheads. Went to Woking, obviously Sutton, Fulham. Never went to Wimbledon, which is just as well. But Sutton had a team that stuck because, so we won 4-0, which helped. I remember, so my dad worked for a company that sponsored the clubs. We were in like the hospitality. I can't remember if it was before or after the game, but there was like a raffle. And so, yeah, so I was picked to draw the raffle and I was seven years old.
Johnnie
05:18 - 05:26
I didn't know how a raffle worked. So someone, I don't know who this was. It was probably someone who's still at the club now. So if you remember this story, then it's your fault that
Mike Dowling
05:26 - 05:27
I'm a
Johnnie
05:27 - 05:59
Sutton fan. So someone was like, oh, you're looking for number, whatever it was, 26. So I didn't know how the raffle worked. So I actually went into the cup and went looking for my number. So everyone found it hilarious. I didn't know what was going on. They let me fix the raffle so that I won. No one seemed to care. See, I won the raffle from not knowing how a raffle works. The prize that I won is probably like a third prize or something, looking back. It was a centenary mug, which was the year I was born, 1998.
Johnnie
05:59 - 06:04
I've still got it on my mantelpiece back at home.
Mark
06:05 - 06:05
So
Johnnie
06:05 - 06:13
I always remember that. It was just like the friendly feel of Sutton, which made it stick more than any of the other teams. And so that's why Sutton became my team.
Mike Dowling
06:15 - 06:19
Yeah, I was gonna say, well, you said I've still got the mug. I was like, that is definitely not in use.
Johnnie
06:20 - 06:23
It's tucked away where it's not gonna get broken, but it's still there. I've checked.
Mike Dowling
06:24 - 07:09
Yeah well I was similar with everyone supporting different teams and I just liked the idea that everyone hated Sutton's kit and to find Sutton's results you had to dig really deep into the newspapers and when we were losing and people mentioned it on Monday morning I was like you've had to look for that. you've had to search to find out we'd lost that means you're looking up our results so yeah i just i just liked all the annoyances um but it was one of those slow but for me there was no one moment we won on our first game lenny scored a hat trick i think but it was suddenly when i didn't go for a little while i was like oh no i i do miss that and realized that i was a fan But yeah, what's your answers?
Mike Dowling
07:09 - 07:46
Not necessarily where you first came to a match, but when you realised you were a fan of Sutton United and drop us in any of the comments or tag us with at Sutton Podcast on social media. A couple bits of club news, the ladies just won, well not just won, about an hour ago they finished, it was 4-0 with Millie Cutler scoring a hat-trick, so brilliant, nice result for them. And I don't know if either of you saw, the accounts were out this week and they make interesting reading. Mark, what I mean, I don't really get them.
Mike Dowling
07:46 - 07:53
Johnny, you might be to explain them. You've just told us your financial wizard. Mark, what are your initial thoughts on the accounts? I mean,
Mark
07:55 - 07:55
it doesn't
Mike Dowling
07:55 - 07:55
well, there's a
Mark
07:55 - 08:32
big, big, big numbers in there. And they're there for last season, of course. There was a smell like a million plus quick debt. But I know that since then, that loan I think it's probably one of the American investors, I think has been converted into equity. So basically, swapping debt for shares. So that large chunk of that debt that was shown in those accounts has since been effectively wiped out. So although I think there probably is still a not insignificant amount of debt, things aren't quite as calamitous as they might have appeared from somebody just looking at those accounts for the first time.
Mike Dowling
08:34 - 08:52
Yeah, I mean, some of the comments I was reading through different things, but people were saying, well, obviously, we had to do ground changes, and people are like, well, what ground changes do we do? This still needs doing, that thing's doing, and I'm like, there's a great big shiny stand, how do you think that was paid for? Obviously, there was money, but Johnny, have you seen them? I don't know if you've looked.
Johnnie
08:53 - 09:24
Yeah, I have. I don't think it does cover the ground improvements in the last financial year. It is just that we're spending more from what I can tell on the day-to-day. I mean, we are just, we are effectively dependent on outside investment, as is probably the case with the majority of clubs at this level now. I think that's just the way football goes. You don't take outside investment. We've got a budget that's probably fit for the bottom conference South, top Ryman League, or Italy League, whatever it is these days. So, I mean, things have changed a lot in the
Mike Dowling
09:24 - 09:24
last 10
Johnnie
09:24 - 10:00
years. That's the reality of where we are. I think it's the reality of where most clubs in the National League are. We're not pulling crowds of 5,000 a game. Even the teams that are like York City have got some bloke chucking millions of pounds at it. So, that's the reality, I think, to compete. in the National League, we're going to need outside investment and the accounts show that we are reliant on that, which isn't a surprise, to be honest. It doesn't make for particularly good reading, but I don't think it's nothing unexpected or out of the ordinary for the modern game, essentially.
Johnnie
10:00 - 10:02
Yeah,
Mike Dowling
10:02 - 10:31
I mean, the good thing is the outside investment we seem to be attracting seems to be people who are buying in and getting something, they're not just kind of just chucking money and hoping for a quick return. I mean, we're not going to be in as much danger as a lot of other clubs because we don't own our ground. So there's lots of other clubs, you get all this investment and suddenly, all right, we've just lost your ground, but we don't have that. So yeah, it's not nice to be in so much debt, but yeah, I can say it's life at the moment.
Mike Dowling
10:34 - 10:41
But on to the match, Jonny, we'll start with you. What was your expectations going into the match and what were your thoughts on the lineup?
Johnnie
10:42 - 11:11
We had to win because it's been a long time. I think if we'd lost the game, we at that point would have been drawn into what you could probably call a relegation battle if we'd been left six or seven points above the relegation zone. I don't think we were in a relegation battle. I don't think we are still now, but we were at risk of it, certainly. So, yeah, expectation was a win. The line-up, yeah, I don't want to say it was what I was expecting, because I don't know what I was expecting at this point.
Johnnie
11:11 - 11:41
We were a lot of players out, and it was good to see Nanna given a chance. I thought he did well. Defensively, I think we're sort of building our backline around Jack Taylor, which I don't think is a bad thing, even though he's, like, 19. It's an unconventional way of doing things, but I'm a big fan of his. So, yeah, I think I think I say this all the time, it was a strong enough team to get the result. I wasn't looking at it and thinking, oh, I'm changing my expectations. We needed to get a win.
Johnnie
11:41 - 11:48
We had the side to get the win. And thankfully, for the first time in a while, we managed it. We got over the line. So yeah, happy days.
Mike Dowling
11:50 - 11:55
I think five games it was without a win, I think. Yeah, there's
Mark
11:55 - 11:56
three draws and two defeats.
Mike Dowling
11:56 - 12:02
So Mark, what were your thoughts line up expectations wise?
Mark
12:03 - 12:36
I don't tend to go to games with particular expectations. I go with hopes rather than expectations. But yeah, it was an attacking line-up, you know, and we played with wingers rather than wing-backs, although just with the one striker as usual, Will Davis, up front, as Jonny said, good to see. Now we're getting a rare start, and obviously Dylan was on the other wing. Come back to him in a bit. But yeah, it was, I think, a side pick to win the game rather than to avoid defeat.
Mike Dowling
12:38 - 13:06
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was similar. I'll come to it afterwards. I quite like Steve's explanation afterwards as well. He didn't just dismiss what was the thinking behind the lineup. But I'm going to start with Dylan. Long time coming. Talk us through his goal mark and how much you think that means and how important it's going to be for him. Yeah, I mean,
Mark
13:06 - 13:49
I was up at Solihull on Tuesday and he had a good game. He was consistently beating the fullback, getting crosses in, but unfortunately all the crosses went to Solihull players. So, he didn't actually manage to get a goal, although he was involved in the build-up to the one goal he did score. So, he's been showing a lot of promise. He showed, I think, a lot of awareness and alertness to get that goal because there was a kind of lofted pass back from making a player on the wing back to one of his centre-back teammates. I think the guy would be impressed by one of our other players and Dylan unusually was in quite central position at that point.
Mark
13:50 - 14:22
He had space in front of him and saw that the ball wasn't travelling very quickly and he thought I could get to that because obviously he's a fast guy. So he sprinted. I think he just got the ball ahead of the defender. There was a sort of challenge which he rode just had the keeper to beat. Our old friend Craig Ross of course in the late-nit goal. And in the past when he's kind of just had the keeper to beat he's tended to shoot straight at the keeper and not score. But that's tended to be the case when the keeper's been on the line and Ross was somewhere off his line.
Mark
14:22 - 14:41
So rather than shooting at or around the keeper, Dylan just chipped it. And obviously that needed a bit of sound technique. It was a well-taken goal and he shows he can do it. But that was what he did. It was a different type of goal from the one he's attempted to score in the past for us. And it worked. The ball sailed into the net. Hooray.
Mike Dowling
14:43 - 15:14
Yeah, I mean, there was a couple of things I saw in it. You can see the moment he, as you've described there, where he realises, I'm going to get to that, and he just pelts off. I think, Johnny, that Weisty had a long time to build up his goal. As Mark said, he had to ride the challenge, so he didn't quite get his footing. He didn't have as long to think about what he was going to do, as he has had in some of those other chances that he sort of shot at the keeper earlier in the season, but what were your thoughts on his goal and how important is it going to be for him?
Johnnie
15:15 - 15:41
Yeah, it deserves a lot of credit for it because it was all him. He did really well to make the ball, to win. There was still a challenge from the defender which he was stronger than the defender on. Went through and it was actually a really clever finish. He's a player that's had very mixed reviews and I don't know what to make of him. At times he's looked so exciting, so lively. He's a player that gets you off the edge of your seat I guess. So many times this season the final ball has been lacking.
Johnnie
15:42 - 16:17
The way I've describes it to people in this sort of debate that's gone on forever. He's a little bit like what David Adjuboy was before he was good, if that makes sense. He's shown all the signs of getting in the right positions, beating men, just not quite there with the final ball yet. It's a very clever finish. He's had three or four chances that I can think of that he hasn't taken that he really should have done in prior games to yesterday. So hopefully it's a confidence booster. I guess composure more than ability, to be honest, the chances that he's had that he hasn't put away.
Johnnie
16:18 - 16:44
I think he's got so much potential to be like a really, really key player for us. But so far, we haven't seen enough of that, which is probably why he's only just starting to break into the team. So yeah, going forward, hopefully it's a confidence boost, like it's in his locker. And once these final balls start to connect, which I'm sure they will then, He's going to be creating a lot of chances for us and a lot of our play will go around him. We just need to get that final step in the process now.
Mike Dowling
16:48 - 17:16
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Dave. It's going to be a similar thing. People are seeing it. They're going to be excited, give him the confidence that you can do this. And then he's going to be able to do it more often, hopefully. I have messaged him. Yeah, I said, please make sure you go on a run now, because it'll look like I've got some football knowledge. I said, I've got one. You'll get a few. Although that was the only goal, that wasn't the only threat. We did have a few chances. I know we only scored one.
Mike Dowling
17:17 - 17:37
And when you look back at the game, you can kind of go, well, actually, there were a couple of other chances. I mean, Lewis had another great chance. What did you think of our attacking threat, Johnny? Did you think that it's just not enough still? It's still a bit blunt? Or are you thinking it's going to happen? Jenny last week says, we're going to give someone a beating at some point.
Johnnie
17:37 - 18:07
Yeah, I mean, one of my criticisms of us this season, I don't think we've been ruthless enough. I think this is something Steve said as well. I mean, we've missed two absolute sitters, to put it bluntly. I mean, both Will and Lewis should have scored those chances, simple as. So the threat was there in the first half anyway. Second half, I actually said at half time to Ryan Cheeseman what I would give for a dull second half when nothing happens and we scrape 1-0. So I feel a little bit like I was at fault for that.
Johnnie
18:07 - 18:34
But honestly, who cares? We won the game. I mean, we didn't have much threat in the second half at all, to be honest, other than that one chance, which was just a poor clearance. First off, we were good. We created a lot. need to put chances like the one where we'll hit the post. I mean, Siju probably should have been scoring before it even got to that point. Yeah, just got to put those chances away, but it's, it's, it's getting there. And yeah, maybe, maybe we do owe a team a Tonkin at some stage, but we need to get more ruthless.
Johnnie
18:34 - 19:01
We need to start, I mean, even Solihull on Tuesday. Oh my God, how many chances do we need in that? I mean, we should have won that game five or six one and we've come away with the draw. So, yeah, it's, We're on the right lines, but I'd like to see us be a little bit, it doesn't have to be five or six, but two or three a game. When was the last time we won a game by more than one goal? It feels like a very long time. So yeah, hopefully we can just step up a little bit and it'll make a big difference.
Mike Dowling
19:02 - 19:07
Get that ruthless in the first 20, get the two goals, three goals and then be more influential in
Johnnie
19:07 - 19:21
the game. Kill the game off while we're on top. We were saying that at Solihull when we were 1-0 up before we gave away that super goal. We should have been 2-3 up at that point. We could have had the game out of sight by half-time yesterday as well if I'm being critical. That's what we need to start doing more of.
Mike Dowling
19:22 - 19:27
What about yourself, Mark? What do you feel about the attacking Yeah, I
Mark
19:27 - 19:56
agree. I mean, there have been a lot of games this season where we've had a lot of pressure and just not converted that into many, if any, goals. And we've won a lot of games by the odd goal or we've taken a lead and ended up drawing. And as Johnny says, we need to be a bit more ruthless. We need to establish two or three goal leads in some of these games. And we've just not been doing that. So I think there's still some work to do. Are we relying too much on Will Davies? Does he need more support up front?
Mark
19:56 - 20:03
Something for the manager to ponder. Will's been great recently, as we know, but there's only so much one player can do. Yeah,
Mike Dowling
20:05 - 20:50
I mean, it's a difficult one because you can't It's all the stuff in the moment, it's those decisions, those choices. The thing with Steve, where he was saying about they go back through the tapes and say to players, at this point, you could have done this, you could have done that. I noticed Sujit was taking the ball down quite a lot and trying to pass it out, getting us into trouble every now and then, but winning it back, so that's fine. the fact that we weren't dominating and it was a rubbish second half did you feel at any point we were troubled because I didn't see that Jack made an awful lot of saves but some you were there Mark what what did you feel in the game was it one where we were expecting him to equalize but it never I
Mark
20:50 - 21:08
feared that they would get an equaliser and I was in great relief and they didn't because we've conceded so many silly equalisers against not very good guys, to be frank this is a brain tree comes to mind. Maitland had a slope in the second half but then down the slope,
Mike Dowling
21:08 - 21:08
which
Mark
21:08 - 21:34
isn't a guarantee, And they had a spell of pressure around about 65 minutes, where we just couldn't seem to get more clear. We were under a lot of pressure, only for two or three minutes. They didn't have any clear-cut chances in that period. So that's credit to our defence. But we were under quite a lot of pressure at that point in the game. And there were two or three other points in the game after that where they even had a little bit of pressure. And you thought, oh, God, they're going to score, aren't they? Thankfully, they didn't.
Mark
21:36 - 21:49
So we were pretty much playing on the break for quite a long time. That's when that little silver chance was unfortunately paid off. And that's
Mike Dowling
21:49 - 21:54
two weeks in a row, mate. Two weeks in a row you've had a good
Mark
21:54 - 22:02
chance. There was a sort of something, a sense of relief at the end that we'd not considered as to who we thought was going to win the points.
Mike Dowling
22:04 - 22:11
And Jonny, what about yourself? Again, with Sutton United fans, we know we conceded late, but did you feel that they were troubled in hindsight?
Johnnie
22:12 - 22:44
I don't really think we were. We had one absolute brain fade at the start of the second half, where from a goal kick, their lads ended up 1-1. I don't know how on earth we managed to do that, and it was Sunday league defending. Luckily, the guys put it over the top, where nine times out of ten, he'll probably score. After that, I actually thought we defended quite well. I don't think Jack had a difficult or notable save to make. We probably sat deeper than we needed to and maybe a bit nervous based on the fact we have conceded a lot of late goals, poor goals as well.
Johnnie
22:45 - 23:17
I thought both the centre-backs did really well. Credit to Hayden Muller as well because he's not played too much for, I guess, what would be the full-strength first team within the league. So, I thought he did really well. Jack Taylor, excellent as usual. So I sort of trusted our defence to see us through. Yeah, it would have been nice if we'd been up the pitch a bit more, didn't have, like you say, Mark, there's spells of pressure where the ball's going in the box a lot. You're thinking, oh, all this would take is for it to fall to the wrong person or to take a deflection in their level.
Johnnie
23:17 - 23:47
But yeah, defensively, we were pretty good, compared to some other games this season where it's felt like a matter of time. I felt we were relatively comfortable. Again, it's a problem we avoid if we just go two or three up. And if Lewis & Puss calls that chance with seven minutes to go, it's not even in the conversation, is it? How we were hanging on at the end. And I don't know where you got seven minutes from. We saw that out quite well, I thought. So credit to us for that this week.
Mike Dowling
23:47 - 23:55
I think it was over eight in the end, but if we won every game, boring three, three nil, I wouldn't have anything to talk about.
Johnnie
23:57 - 24:00
Just one, just one would be nice. Nevermind every, just anything.
Mike Dowling
24:01 - 24:17
Yeah. But who stood out for you? I mean, you mentioned Jack and Hayden. What particularly stood out? I know you said you're a big fan of Jack, but how sort of far do you think he can go? Do you think we're going to keep hold of him or do you think someone's going to come sniffing sooner rather than later?
Johnnie
24:17 - 24:49
We won't keep holding him forever, I'll tell you that much. I don't know if he's under contracts. I would like to think that is a priority for the ownership and the manager. I'm sure they won't need me to tell them. I'm sure it's pretty obvious. He's a very good player. Before I had my health issues, that meant I can't play football anymore. I was a centre-back. He's just so What I like about Jack is he makes everything look so easy. You never see him make a mad last-ditch slide tackle because he's across, shills the ball out of play.
Johnnie
24:49 - 25:21
It looks like he's barely out of second gear. He's just so comfortable. He's going to make mistakes. He's at the age where he's going to make mistakes. I don't know whose mistake it was for that chance that I spoke about. It may well have been his. But yeah, on the whole, really, really good young player. So I think it's best for him to have another year with us, a full season at National League level. I would say that. I don't want him to go. And then after that, who knows? Football League at a bare minimum, perhaps higher.
Johnnie
25:23 - 25:55
Yeah, so fingers crossed that we can make that happen and then get a nice big fee from at the end of that next season. But I think with our younger players, what I really want to see us do in general, and this applies to the lads that are coming through the academy now, I think Junior Eccleston is doing well out on loan, Liam Moore, George Horst, whatever. Instead of a one or two year contract, it's got to be three or four. Because then when you have a player like Jack, if we lost Jack in the summer for what will be a crap fee at a tribunal, that's a massive shame and a massive wasted opportunity to me.
Johnnie
25:56 - 26:29
So if we've got this academy where we're starting to produce players now, we've got to back that up by saying, these are our players, we've produced them and we want a big fee to let them go if they are doing well. So I've gone completely off topic. I thought Sid you did very well, and Miffio as well. On a different note, I thought he sort of held it together. kept our shape, won a lot of the ball, the McAlealy role a little bit. I thought he did it very well. Again, not a player that's been starting every single game this season necessarily, but he's always done pretty well when he's come into the team.
Johnnie
26:29 - 26:32
So yeah, I thought it was a great performance from him as well.
Mike Dowling
26:33 - 26:41
And Mark, about yourself, I mean, add on to Johnny's points about Jack and the younger players, and who else stood out for you as well?
Mark
26:42 - 27:14
Well, I agree about Jack. I mean, another very solid game. I think when he and Alex Kirk came together, and Kirk's only a couple of years older than Jack, I think they had a pretty formidable partnership given their age. I think Alex Kirk was missing still through injury yesterday, but what Steve was saying, he should be back pretty soon. So he could just have been back in the starting 11 if he was picked. I'd also pick up Finlay Barbrook. I think he had another good game yesterday. I think he missed them when he was suspended last month.
Mark
27:15 - 27:26
He's a real presence in midfield, a good user of the ball, a good passer. He can win the ball as well. I think he was a real presence in central midfield for yesterday and in previous games.
Mike Dowling
27:28 - 28:02
Yeah, I mean, it's actually quite easy to overlook him because he does have his bar really high, so he kind of just goes around his job and you're like, okay, you'll notice when he's not there, like you said, or not had a great day. But you mentioned Nano earlier. Now, I said about Steve's interview, it was quite interesting where he sort of said, well, Kirk's still injured, French is suspended, so that's why some of those changes were made. He explained why he chose Tsuji instead of Woodyard. But then the Nanna one was like, I feel I've basically disrespected him.
Mike Dowling
28:02 - 28:21
He said he's not quite the right word, but he's been doing everything right, and I've just not given him enough chances. So I decided today's his day, which I thought was really refreshing to hear. Instead of coming out as he's some tactical genius, just going, actually, yeah, I've been a bit of an arse. But what did you think, Mark? And how did Nanna kind of repay him on that?
Mark
28:22 - 28:22
Yeah,
Mike Dowling
28:22 - 28:22
I
Mark
28:22 - 28:54
mean, he was involved in that. attack when Moldova set the post, Malakassi from the right, he's got the post, so he's shown he can set up attacks. I don't think he did his prospects any harm, I think he's tended to be behind Josh and all the others on that wing. But, you know, competition for places and he's going to do a job for us when he's selected and when he starts.
Mike Dowling
28:55 - 29:07
Yeah. I mean, on that, Johnny, Steve said it's his shirt now. It's up to the guys who's been ahead of him to get it off of him. That's quite harsh as well. But how did you feel on that and his explanation?
Johnnie
29:08 - 29:43
Yeah, I think we've got so many good wingers or wingers that are playing well this season. Josh Nadez, Dylan and Nana, that's four really good players. You can only play two, so you're going to have to go without two. I kind of understand why he's not had the chances. Not because he's not had the chance to show that he's doing well, but Josh has been playing very well this season. Nadas has been excellent whenever he's played. So it's, yeah, I get that it's difficult. He's come in and done well. I don't think Dosh has been up to his usual standards recently, which has probably contributed to it.
Johnnie
29:43 - 30:02
That's been harsh, but it's by his standards this season. So I'm going to be harsh. And yeah, I think he did well, Nadas. So if he keeps the place, then fair enough. We've got a lot of games coming up. We're Saturday and Tuesday for the foreseeable,
Speaker 3
30:02 - 30:02
so I'm
Johnnie
30:02 - 30:13
sure they'll both get plenty of minutes. Yeah, it probably is difficult for managers when you've got so many players in a position and they're all doing well. I mean, what do you do? You've got to leave two of them out.
Mike Dowling
30:14 - 30:43
Well, yeah, and players want to play, but realistically, Josh has had two ankle injuries in the same ankle, so probably he could do the rest as well. But every player will always say, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. The leg's hanging off, and they're like, I'm fine, I can't run it off. Both of you will know a lot more about this than me, but it's not a happy hunting ground for us traditionally. So overall, how do you feel of getting the win there, however it came, Johnny? When you're looking back on it, it's like, we won.
Johnnie
30:44 - 31:16
Yeah, it's the classic sort of difficult place to go. The pitch is always a bit bobbly, the slope, the history with it. We've beat Hayden Hidden there, I think, but I can't remember us ever actually beating Hayden Hidden there other than when it was behind closed doors. So, yeah, I think we need to get better at grinding stuff out as well. So we've done that. It's three points. I don't think it's a game that's going to live long in the memory, but it's an important skill to be able to set up games like that. So, yeah, I mean, it's been a while since we've played there from obviously being in the football league.
Johnnie
31:16 - 31:44
So I honestly can't remember if we beaten them there from pre-COVID, I don't know. But yeah, it's nice to get away. I don't, I don't pay much attention to the history of where we play. I can remember the odd game when I wasn't battered, but yeah, three points is three points as well as saying to people at the end of it, like we've, we've won a game of football for the first time in a while, which is nice. Let's go and build on some more wherever we're playing.
Speaker 3
31:45 - 31:45
Yeah,
Mike Dowling
31:46 - 31:52
I'm fairly sure that's where Louis scored an excellent goal in
Johnnie
31:52 - 31:57
the game. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We lost the rearranged game, didn't
Mike Dowling
31:57 - 31:59
we? We did, yeah. It
Johnnie
31:59 - 31:59
was just typical.
Mike Dowling
32:01 - 32:12
But Mark, what do you think is the who-do sides? I mean, we seem to have a million of who-do sides. Everyone keeps going, oh, we never do well there. It's like, come on, we can't do badly everywhere. But what did you think of it? It's important to get that win.
Mark
32:14 - 32:44
Well, a win's a win. I mean, there have been a few games recently that we should have won and haven't won. So, you know, when you're on a little run like that, any win becomes important. It doesn't matter how you get it. You ground that one out a little bit yesterday, but, you know, you just take the three points. I mean, we've not got a great record against Maidenhead at our place, actually. Our record there is not great. I remember we did win It was about 25 years ago, Denny Folt side. The picture is an absolute mudheap.
Mark
32:45 - 33:03
Denny Folt scored twice in the sumo world, but that's one of the very few wins we've had on that ground over the decades. We did win a course at the end of the title winning season and Louis scored a great goal in that game. But yeah, we've done double over Maidenhead this season, as we did in the title winning season.
Speaker 3
33:03 - 33:04
We
Mark
33:04 - 33:07
went one of the last four games against them, which is quite a classic round.
Mike Dowling
33:08 - 33:08
I know some
Mark
33:08 - 33:11
of the Maidenhead fans actually, they know a good bunch.
Mike Dowling
33:11 - 33:13
After that,
Mark
33:14 - 33:14
I
Mike Dowling
33:14 - 33:14
think
Mark
33:14 - 33:24
they're almost resigned to relegation now. I think they saw that as a massive win, where Gates hit in their next game, which is not a great place to be, but you really need the points.
Mike Dowling
33:27 - 33:36
Right, well, we're just going to quickly do the amazing points of views. I'm not sure if you've heard this. I mean, you don't realise, John, I'm a lyrical genius. It's time
Speaker 3
33:38 - 33:54
to have you say what's good and okay. On the pitch or not, we'll talk about the lot. Your thoughts, your views, on the latest news. It's your points of views.
Mike Dowling
34:00 - 34:34
I should write a number one record. I'm just amazing. So one of the things that Steve also mentioned, I mean, it was only a short interview and I'm already picking loads out, was what you guys have already mentioned about getting that second goal. And he sort of sounded just as frustrated as you guys both sounded, which was quite interesting. Lots of comments about it being an average side that we beat, and a bit of an average side ourselves at the moment because we're right in mid-table, but you can only beat who's in front of you, isn't that right?
Mike Dowling
34:37 - 34:39
both nodding. Yeah, I mean,
Mark
34:39 - 35:10
Maidenhead are not a great side. I mean, you know, they're not the Boston Four for no reason. They remind me a little bit of Brainfree. I think Brainfree have improved a bit actually through the seasons and they changed the manager, but I think our 1-0 winner Maidenhead yesterday was a bit reminiscent of our 1-0 winner Brainfree back in October. You've got to put the work in yourself to beat these sides. You will get chances, but not very many. You've got to take one or two of them when they come. Do
Mike Dowling
35:11 - 35:12
you want to agree?
Johnnie
35:13 - 35:42
Yeah, they were basic. I think that's the way I'd describe them as long balls, crosses into the box, didn't play a lot of football. The way if they were going to score, it was when they had that goal kick and went through on goal or a set piece, they looked very dangerous. Often the sides that we struggle against, historically speaking anyway. So yeah, like you say, you can only beat what's in front of you. It's a start. I mean, I thought Solihull were much worse, to be honest with you. We didn't beat them. So it's an improvement from Tuesday.
Johnnie
35:43 - 36:03
And the way we're playing at the minute, it doesn't seem to matter who we're playing against. We'll be sort of dreadful against Spain or excellent against York City. So Tuesday night at Forest Green, logically you'd be thinking away to the team that's second or third in the league, we're going to struggle, but actually we've probably got as much chance of winning it as we did the last two.
Mike Dowling
36:04 - 36:33
Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, you mentioned the relegation battle earlier, dragged into it, because last week there were comments of, that's it, we're down to single figures. We were involved in a relegation battle. That's it. No one can deny it. So I had a quick look at the table yesterday. Now we've moved up to 12th from 13th, and we're now single figures away from the playoff spots. Does that mean we're in the playoff hunt? Because if we were single figures away from relegation, then we must now be in the playoff hunt.
Johnnie
36:35 - 37:01
I would say that we weren't in a relegation battle. We could have been drawn towards it. I would say the same that we're not quite in the playoff battle, but we could be moving up into it. I mean, we've got 12 games to go. You never have nothing to play for in the National League with 12 games to go. If we lose the next five games, we'll be back to four or five points above the relegation zone, relegation battle for the last seven. If we win the next five games, maybe two or three points max off the playoffs and you're in a playoff battle.
Johnnie
37:01 - 37:35
I mean, it's not... particularly likely that we'll do either of those things, but it's certainly not impossible. We've in living memory in the last few years, even, we'd have won five in a row, we'd have lost five in a row. So anything can happen, both on a, I don't think we'll go down, but you can never completely write it off. So the playoffs are the more realistic of the two, by a long way, still quite a small chance, I'm not gonna lie, but it's possible. It's definitely possible. I wouldn't say we're in a play-off race, if you like.
Johnnie
37:35 - 37:40
Win the next two games or next three games, and I think we probably are. So, certainly wouldn't write it off.
Mike Dowling
37:42 - 37:43
Mark, what do you reckon?
Mark
37:44 - 38:13
Yeah, well, I thought for most of the season that they're going to finish mid-table, but, you know, you never know in football, as Johnny says. The next two games, you know, both against sides, above us in the table, Croyston away, Halifax at home. After that, actually, there's 10 games left. The run-in doesn't look too scary. We're playing a lot of sides below us in the table, most of them away from home as it happens, but all the way forward we're pretty good. The sides above us in the table, only two or three I think we've got left to play, and they're at home.
Mark
38:14 - 38:49
We've got Rockdale on Tuesday night, Southend, and we've got Barnet on Easter Monday. Those games, at least two of them, could get quite big crowds. We have to get behind the side and lift them, you know, who knows? I mean, we've got a place like, you know, Edge Street and, what's the file, that's a mid-week one, of course, but they are struggling as well. Aldershot, you know, those guys are down there, possum, possum, half of the table. You know, if we can suddenly step up a gear or two in those last 10 or 12 games, you know, we could actually make a bid for the playoffs.
Mark
38:50 - 38:52
Not what I expect to happen, but it's not out of the question.
Mike Dowling
38:53 - 39:36
No, I'm expecting, hoping that we definitely finish top 10. I don't know why 12th, I know it's halfway, but I don't know why 12th is so much more important to me than 13th, but top half of the table, it doesn't really mean much, but yeah, hopefully we'll get top 10. But we'll quickly finish on yesterday with the good, the bad, and the funny, and I'll give you two seconds or so to think about it. So Johnny, yesterday, can be on the pitch, off the pitch, whatever you like. What was good about the day?
Johnnie
39:36 - 40:09
The full-time whistle was nice. Just that sense, it was like relief a little bit, wasn't it? And we've won a game. Shout out to, it's a very terrible shout because I can't remember the name of the pub. There's a very nice pub near the grounds where we were camped out before the game. There was music, there was pool, there was darts, there was cheap drink. Everyone was very happy. So whatever that, I just feel like it was the something house. It was a craft union pub, but yeah, they were excellent. So that was good as well.
Mike Dowling
40:11 - 40:15
Right. Not to put you on the spot, Mark, but what pub was it? Was
Johnnie
40:15 - 40:19
it in the Maidenshead? No, it wasn't the Maidenshead.
Mark
40:20 - 40:20
It
Johnnie
40:20 - 40:23
was just around the corner. Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Mike Dowling
40:25 - 40:25
I'll
Johnnie
40:25 - 40:29
look it up while you're on your mark and I'll come back
Mike Dowling
40:30 - 40:32
to it. What was good for you, Mark?
Mark
40:33 - 40:45
Well, just our first league double of the season. And we've not beaten anybody twice, other than next week. This was a trophy game on penalties, so quite the same. But
Mike Dowling
40:45 - 40:45
this
Mark
40:45 - 40:47
sort of double, I said, was not the last.
Mike Dowling
40:48 - 40:51
Yeah, absolutely. And what was bad for you, Mark?
Mark
40:53 - 41:28
Well, Johnny's already mentioned it. I mean, the minutes of stoppage time at the end, really, you know, you tend to see things around the Timid Spectacles, but I get the impression that a lot of refs have got their own conscious bias against us. I mean, the referee had it solid, it was terrible. He was giving everything away. The guy we had yesterday wasn't as bad. Luckily it didn't matter because we sorted them out after the book under a lot of pressure. It was in the end 4 or 5 instead
Mike Dowling
41:29 - 41:29
of 7
Mark
41:29 - 41:29
or 8.
Mike Dowling
41:33 - 41:50
It could have been awful, because seeing the seven minutes also gives you a little bit of, oh, you've got to go again and you've got to keep going for those players as well. So it could have been demoralising. First of all, so Johnny, we'll ask you all bad, but did you have the name of your pub?
Johnnie
41:52 - 41:54
It was Corner House, I found it. It was
Mike Dowling
41:54 - 41:54
something
Johnnie
41:54 - 42:12
else, so I was all right about that. It's a classic, pretty much, football pub. The bad, they've not confirmed the away attendance unless I've missed it. That's annoying. It always winds me up. I like to see that sort of thing. That's as good a positive bad as I could give without
Speaker 3
42:12 - 42:12
saying
Johnnie
42:12 - 42:29
anything. I've already mentioned about the one where we switched off and not been able to get another goal. But yeah, I would like to know. I feel like we had more than 300 there. I think we were about a quarter of the crowd, if not more, which was a a good turnout from us, I've
Mike Dowling
42:29 - 42:30
made the bargain to
Johnnie
42:30 - 42:30
a good.
Mike Dowling
42:31 - 43:00
But it is important, because you two, some of the 10s and 12s and 13s have gone to the various places over the years. So just saying, well, actually, no, I like looking at the crowds, because it's up to 200s, 300s, as you say. It's really, really nice. I mean, it was one of the crowds. I can't remember what it was. I think I had 20% of our away fan crowd on the show. It's not great, is it? But what was funny about the day, Johnny?
Johnnie
43:02 - 43:20
I always struggle with these, it shows I have a terrible sense of humor. The train back, I would apologize to anyone on the 556 because we managed to hold it for a good couple of minutes, just people coming up the stairs. trying to get on the train, so held the door open for one person. It's just a street, like a comedy sketch,
Mike Dowling
43:20 - 43:20
just
Johnnie
43:21 - 43:29
a stream of people, all various degrees of being delayed from the other to the point where the train guards come over. We got everyone on the train
Mike Dowling
43:29 - 43:30
and it was probably only
Johnnie
43:30 - 43:36
about two or three minute delay, but yeah, just a never ending stream of people we were holding doors for.
Mike Dowling
43:37 - 43:42
Yes, like when you hold the door in the pub, you think, all right, I'll go in after you, after you, hang on, where have you all come from? What's going
Johnnie
43:43 - 43:47
on? Double the capacity of the train from just holding that door.
Mike Dowling
43:48 - 43:50
And Mark, what was funny about the day for yourself?
Mark
43:51 - 44:28
Well, Johnny might be in the thick of this, but something you've turned out in their numbers, because it's a fairly easy, there's a cheap away trip for them. We were, sorry, we were defending the so-called bell end at the ground in the first half, then go up to the old bell hotel, which is where it is. And we basically had a corner of that end, and Maidenhead fans had the other corner, because they were attacking that bell, a lot of their fans were at that end. There was a sort of fenced-off area of terracing between the two sets of fans and sort of buffer zone.
Mark
44:28 - 45:02
and all the kids were one side and then the kids were the other side. And at one point, 15, 20 minutes in, and everybody would be the champion, you know, football league and you fucked it up, you know. And the Sutton North replied, you know, National League champions, you will never sing that. And then the Maidenhead fans responded with champions of Berkshire, you'll never sing that. Which is slightly, it is slightly, and I thought well actually there's no such thing is there as the Berkshire Senior Cup, it's the Arks and Bucks Senior Cup, two counties.
Mark
45:03 - 45:07
The champions Berkshire and Buckinghamshire doesn't really trip off the tongue very well
Johnnie
45:07 - 45:14
does it? They stole that off us at Oldham. We were doing the rounds. It was Champions of Surrey. You'll never sing that. Anglo-Italian Cup champions. You'll never
Speaker 3
45:14 - 45:15
sing that. At
Johnnie
45:15 - 45:21
least constitutions in the league. You'll never sing that. I feel like they've taken that idea from us, fair play to them. They've
Mike Dowling
45:21 - 45:21
been
Johnnie
45:21 - 45:23
paying attention. They've been listening in.
Mike Dowling
45:25 - 45:35
Most first card, red card in the first half in the football league. We had that. That was a lovely record for any team. I'm not
Johnnie
45:35 - 45:36
surprised some of the players that we had, honestly.
Mike Dowling
45:38 - 46:10
red cards in the first half so oh that's amazing stuff I could just imagine Mark trying to stroll over and go excuse me excuse me I think you'll find that you're not Berkshire champions let me explain the rules to you um right you've mentioned Forest Green already um have seen, their form isn't, is similar to ours, I think someone said. I think it was Andy that said the only team they've beaten in the last sort of five, six is Maidenhead, and they've got a very similar form to us. Johnny, you've already given a bit of positive.
Mike Dowling
46:10 - 46:37
You think, you know what, that's typical us. We're going to struggle, struggle, struggle, and then suddenly go boom. I think, again, it was Mark on the forum said, you'd mentioned about we've played better And at Solihull, we played much better in previous games and got less than we got at Maidenhead. How do you think it's going to go against Forest Green? We owe them a little bit for that last-minute goal to sort of steal it away from us. But how do you see it going, Jonny?
Johnnie
46:38 - 47:07
Yeah, fairly confident. I haven't paid much attention to their form. I think we're so sort of mid-table at the minute that I'm just like, turn up and see what happens. Um, I do feel like the only really bad game that we've played recently was spending more, which was the one game where it would have been nice not to have played badly, but that's a story for another day. Um, but we've, we've generally been like we're competitive in every game. We're not, I don't think we're going to go there and look outclassed or look noticeably second best.
Johnnie
47:07 - 47:35
We might have a game plan to put on the break. I don't know, but I don't think they're going to offer us. So I'll give us every chance. Um, I think they're probably a bit more of a. point of being nervous and the title was getting away from them. Can they hold on to second slash third to get that home semi-final? Whereas we've got nothing to lose now. I mean, we're realistically not going to go down. We're not likely to get in the playoffs, but we've got a chance. We can play with a bit of freedom, get at them, see if we can upset them a little bit.
Johnnie
47:36 - 47:57
The annoying thing of us this season is we really, really have the players to do that. And at times we haven't showed it. So if we can play like we did at York or Like we did at Oldham, to be fair, if we could have got that goal while we were on top, recurring theme. Then, yeah, I don't see why we can't go there and be confident of getting a result, whether it be a winner or a draw.
Mike Dowling
47:58 - 48:04
Okay. Give me a prediction. Everyone loves a prediction. You don't play the prediction anyway, so it doesn't matter.
Johnnie
48:04 - 48:13
No, I don't. I don't, sorry. I reckon two on Sutton. I reckon we'll have enough in the tank, a bit of confidence now.
Mike Dowling
48:14 - 48:19
nice solid display. Mark, how do you see it going?
Mark
48:20 - 48:20
We've
Mike Dowling
48:20 - 48:21
tended
Mark
48:21 - 48:54
to play well away against the stronger sides and we've won at York, we've nearly won at Barnet, we drew at Oldham, we drew at Halifax. So, our record way against the top size actually is quite impressive. I was looking at Forest Green's recent results earlier today and they don't lose at home very often, but they've drawn quite a few at home. I mean, Aldershot, Boykin and Dagenham and Redbridge all got draws there last three months and they were all well below us on the table. So, I think we're capable of getting something there. I'm
Mike Dowling
48:54 - 48:55
going
Mark
48:55 - 48:56
to go for my usual boring one-on-one.
Mike Dowling
48:59 - 49:26
Well I'm going to decide this is the game that we turn it on, blow them away in the first 20 minutes. We're going to go 3-0 up and then play boring for the rest of the match. Dylan's going to score at least one. I'm off for my meds in a minute as well. But I'm going to wrap up this episode, gents. Thank you very much. I mean, if you do want to play along for the Prediction League, it's obviously quite late in the season, so you're probably not going to trouble the winners, but you'll definitely beat Joe if you enter twice.
Mike Dowling
49:29 - 49:57
As always, we appreciate your attention and feedback. Get involved in the Knowing Me, Knowing You section, which is the How Did You Become a Fan of Sutton United. Follow, like, share, give us the thumbs up, share it in your networks, it's great, it makes everyone else feel really, really sad and happy to see my face. Give us a review, if you like, as well, because we don't have many of them. But we are back next time after the Forest Green match, and we will have, I'm furiously trying to remember, Neil and Sarah on to discuss it.
Mike Dowling
49:58 - 50:09
As always, thank you to our sponsors, Lucky Star Gin, big thank you to Mark and Johnny today, thank you both. and thank you for listening. Hope you've enjoyed this Epsilon Sutton podcast. Take care and we'll catch up soon. Thank you, bye bye.
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