In this latest episode of Sutton & United Talk Time on Podcast, aptly titled 'Turning Point with Finlay & Andrew', we dive deep into the thrilling and nerve-wracking 3-3 FA Cup draw that saw the U's battle back three times against Farnham. Host Mike Dowling welcomes back regular guest Andrew and introduces debut commentator Finlay, a 17-year-old making a name for himself on the Sutton commentary team and living out his "dream profession in the future". The conversation centres around the match's raw emotion, the club's coaching changes, and what this dramatic comeback might mean for Sutton United's confidence moving forward
Mike Dowling
Hello and welcome to another episode of Sight & United Talk Time on podcast in association with Lucky Star Gin. I'm your host, Mike. As always, if you're a regular listener, thank you for coming back.
I say it every week and I want you to know I genuinely mean it. I really, really do appreciate those who listen. If you're a new listener, hopefully I'll get to appreciate you soon, but you're welcome as well. But hopefully I'll get to say I really appreciate you as well.
I'm Mike, as I said, and with me today I have Andrew making a return and we have Finlay making a debut. We're going to come back and talk to him in a minute. We love hearing from you, join the conversations, stay connected with Sutton Podcast, share the at Sutton Podcast on all social medias. I'm not sure how much longer we'll last on Twitter, I'll be honest, but hey, we'll keep going.
It's a lovely place. And a big shout out to everyone who shares and retweets or re-shares or all the other bits and pieces. Thank you. You really, really do help us on the podcast.
So firstly, we'll do some introductions and whatnot, but we'll start with you, Andrew. Hello. How are you? Loving all the little pictures little and growing up.
Andrew
Thank you.
Mike Dowling
How's it going?
Andrew
Yeah, I'm well, thanks. I've just caught my breath back from yesterday's game. Absolutely breathless. It was my first game for a little while actually.
Andrew
Went to a few of the early games in August, early September. But yeah, I haven't been to the last couple before yesterday. But yeah, not too bad.
Mike Dowling
Yesterday, I got a message at 1457, and it says, that equalizer changed the complexion of tomorrow's podcast ever so slightly.
Andrew
Yeah, I'm going to go with that still. Yeah, I'm obviously not as down as I was around the 85th minute mark. Yeah, when it looked like we were going out.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, absolutely. And Finlay, hello.
Finlay
Hello.
Mike Dowling
How are you?
Finlay
I'm good. I think Andrew took the words right out of my mouth. I'm still just trying to calm down from yesterday. And I think I was preparing to do this podcast with The Defeat, but then Jayden Harris completely changed the narrative, which is no bad thing.
Mike Dowling
Absolutely. But your first time on, people may have heard your voice before, but Tell us a little bit about yourself, how your connection with Sutton United is, and why people may have known the voice, not necessarily the face.
Finlay
Well, hello, I'm Finlay, I'm 17 years old, and I've just joined the Sutton family, the Sutton commentary team, since the start of the season. Kind of my dream, my dream profession in the future. So I had some work experience in the summer at Sutton United, Jimmy Dac, who Mike, I know you know quite well, done some podcasts with. He, outside of management, he also does kind of airport runs.
Finlay
So one day at five o'clock in the morning, as you are, you're stuck in traffic on the M25, and he turns around and says, Finlay, what would you like to do in the future? And I said, oh, you know, football commentator's the dream. He turns around and says, oh yeah, I work at Sutton, come and get some work experience. So that was great.
Finlay
It was a great week, was with the first team, the academy, and I was invited down to do some co-commentary for the Wimbledon game, which was a great introduction to Norwin. I think it was an Oda-Lucie penalty and Maddison in the first half. And then from there I've done, I think, every home game other than Tamworth. So I'm enjoying it and it's a pleasure to be here this evening.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, you do sound a little, because the first couple of times you were on, You sound very much like Will Lawless, who was on before.
Finlay
And
Mike Dowling
there was something you said, and I messaged Will about it, and then he responded back. And I was like, hang on, why are you responding during the match? I want you to read it half the time. And he was like, I'm not doing the match.
Mike Dowling
And I
Finlay
was like, oh, OK. I actually had that when I was waiting for the phone call to know if I got the role. the guys said if this was casting we would never ever put you and Will together because you sound exactly the same.
Mike Dowling
What a lovely story, I mean to be like completely
Finlay
out
Mike Dowling
of it. having a chat with a random stranger then goes, well, actually I can help you with that. And Jimmy's just, dude.
Finlay
Jimmy's great. But I think I've experienced every type of emotion so far this season. We've had the Fulham game, which we don't need to say anymore. Lost my voice about 10 or 11 times.
Finlay
So yeah, but no, it's been great. And just trying to rack up the hours.
Mike Dowling
Have you met and spoke to Sol yet at
Finlay
all? Who?
Mike Dowling
Sol.
Finlay
No, I don't think so.
Andrew
the
Mike Dowling
Yes, it's a little sorry. He does loads for the BBC. He's been commentating for years and years and years and
Andrew
used to do
Mike Dowling
this for us as well. So yeah, definitely have a chat with him.
Andrew
He loves
Mike Dowling
helping people out as well. Right, so club news. What, an hour, two hours ago? Not even that.
Mike Dowling
Sean and the club tweeted out or put the message out on socials that he has left by mutual consent. He had put his notice in, which I did say last time out that it's very weird for a football club to have someone work in notice. But he's now moved on. Sean's been on before.
Mike Dowling
I have I want to say chats with Sean before most games, but as I was explaining just before this, one of those chats especially was like a 22 minute him talking at me. Love him, love him though. But yeah, I've already said it to him, but thank you very much to Sean for all he's done and all his hard work. I mean, the last few weeks he's been doing fitness and conditioning, assistant manager, goalkeeping coach.
Mike Dowling
Loads, sorry for any gone. I
Finlay
was going to say, he did an interview as well, I think after the, was it the Oval Game? He stepped in and also did an interview, so.
Mike Dowling
I must admit, my heart was in my mouth when I saw him out there doing that. I was like, oh God, what's he saying? But he was very good, I thought. Andrew, I know you wanted to say something on Sean as well.
Andrew
Yeah, I mean, he was obviously quite a valid member of the team, wasn't he? I mean, he came in during Matt Gray's time here i think and then obviously stayed around when morrison got appointed and then um yeah that that word valued he seemed quite a valued member of the entire uh like first team that community so i think i think i'd be missed um
Mike Dowling
yeah I, I, I'm thinking this is a timing, not the timing of the new management. I think it's just one of those where he's gone. I, you know, I can't do this anymore. There's too much going on
Andrew
and he's got his own
Mike Dowling
business as well. So I don't know, but it might be just sped up by the timing going actually, yeah, I'll take this opportunity. But yeah, he's, he's done so, so much. And, um, Yeah, he's got some nice views on what he does as well.
Mike Dowling
Didn't like it when I say make them run till they vomit. Didn't like that. It's a bit more technical than that, he told me. Podcast news.
Mike Dowling
I've got a lovely new green screen. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it. The idea was I could just put different things behind myself, but when I tried it with the chat I did with JT and Junior and Kai, when I did it, it worked perfectly for me, but it made them disappear in patches, so I'm pretty sure I messed that up.
Mike Dowling
I'll keep trying. Keeps me young, trying to learn these things, but if anyone's got any ideas, let me know. You
Andrew
need a Southern United scarf or something behind you on the wall.
Mike Dowling
That's my image. I've got an image to
Andrew
put
Mike Dowling
there and it's going to be looking like it's a proper professional thing with side graphics and everything. But yeah, ain't working. But never mind, it gives me something to concentrate on. Right, we're going to get to the match.
Mike Dowling
What was your thoughts ahead of the match, Finlay? And were there any surprises in the line-up for you?
Finlay
Well, I think it's always quite nice to have a break from the league and I know it's cliche, but the magic of the FA Cup, there's always a different feel on a Saturday. And I think,
Mike Dowling
yeah,
Finlay
I think it's, you're always optimistic, but I think this season, you know, the results have been so mixed. You're not really sure what to expect, but Farmer Way, obviously going in as favorites. In terms of the lineup, I think we only made three changes. I think it was a breath of fresh air to see a Bonner get the nod.
Finlay
I think everyone around the ground has been, you know, so keen for him to start. I think it was his first start since Woking. And, you know, his impact throughout the season has been immense. You know, Solihard-Moores, the goal against Carlisle.
Finlay
I think there's still a debate whether it was the celebration or the goal that was better. but I know I couldn't execute either of them. But no, great.
Mike Dowling
The landing was awful. Even Rosie criticized the landing.
Finlay
I think I'd still be on the floor trying to get up if I attempted it. But to see Bonner start was amazing. And yeah, I think three changes. I think understandably, Chris wanted to kind of stick with what he knew and not change too much and just build off the drawaway at Braintree.
Mike Dowling
Andrew, yourself, I mean, I did question why Jack Wadham wasn't playing the other day. It turns out he was slightly injured because obviously he's got a connection with Chris and Chris really trusts him. But any surprises for you? What were your expectations going into the game?
Andrew
Big, big banana skin, wasn't it, given the form that they are on this season. They haven't lost yet any competition. So I knew it was going to be a tough game for us, given the form, I guess, that we've been on going into it. Team selection-wise, when I saw the initial line-up, I thought, oh, this is quite defensive.
Andrew
They had, like, four or five centre-backs listed. But you obviously had Phipps. what looked almost like a box-to-box role. It was quite bizarre.
Andrew
Yeah, I understand why N'Joku was on the bench. He's clearly an impact player, isn't he? You're probably going to ask more about that later. Yeah, um, slightly, slightly hamstrung with the international duty call-ups, um, as well, Critchlow and De Silva missing, uh, who ordinarily would have been involved, I reckon, yesterday.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, it's, it's, it's... I don't know, you know, Kane has been in and out with injury, and when he's hit, he tends to, he then gets called up to all these games as well, so it's like, okay, are we gonna see much? Um, but, yeah, no. Um, Yeah, I thought this was a much trickier game than I think anyone really let on, because it's not only that they've not been beaten this season, it's been two years, two and a bit years, that they've just had constant, constant success.
Mike Dowling
They've been promoted twice. There's players I didn't realise, one of their players, because I was listening on the telly, and he's done over 200 games in the National League. So some of the players are definitely playing steps below. As you know, Kytana was with us, he went there and he was very highly rated.
Mike Dowling
So they've got good players, so perhaps it wasn't as sort of a shoo-in as everyone kind of thought it would be. But I don't know if you guys realized, but at kickoff, I was like, oh no, we're starting United. This should be, this is what we were doing. No pennant.
Mike Dowling
They had a pennant to swap, a proper traditional cup tie thing, and we didn't have one. So Aaron was kind of standing there empty handed and had to run off and put the pennants aside. I don't know, did you notice that at kickoff or?
Andrew
I noticed Jones, he had a pennant, didn't he?
Mike Dowling
Yeah, they gave it to
Andrew
him. Oh, OK. And we didn't have anything to give him. Well, it
Mike Dowling
certainly looked like we didn't have anything, because they kind of handed it over and he kind of looked around going, oh. So I'm sure we'll make up for it on Tuesday.
Andrew
Yeah, once we bumped him out in the replay, yeah.
Mike Dowling
Let's start with obvious. Was it Was it a game we should have won and we snatched a draw, or was it a game of they were better than us at this moment in time, tactics or the psychological side? Andrew, over to you first.
Andrew
Oh, I've seen so many comments post-match saying that Farnham deserved to win, et cetera, and I don't think they did. I thought it was just a classic cup tie. It was very end-to-end. It reminded me of the Hemel ties, about 10 years ago, when they were absolutely flying.
Andrew
We went there, drew free all at their place, and then got on back to ours for a replay. I thought we had a lot of chances, just a bit unlucky. Simp should have scored in the first half. Taylor had one off the line second half, didn't he?
Andrew
Nader Zined had a shot saved. I thought our attacking play was brilliant. We were threatening. The other end was just very, very disappointing, which let us down yesterday.
Andrew
So defensively, yeah, we've got a lot of work to do. But I'd say a draw was probably a fair result, actually, on the balance of things.
Mike Dowling
I think a lot of those comments would be because obviously it's the romantic side. You can, you, you, you're always, if it's something's not involved, if you're watching that match, you're always going to go and remembering the chances that the lower league side, I remember what, what Sutton would have produced. Um, but I I'm kind of with you. I'm thinking.
Mike Dowling
We did enough not to lose, but we very nearly did lose. If we had lost, you couldn't say you got it, really. And if you'd won, you would have been like, we proper got away with that. But what about yourself, Finlay?
Mike Dowling
Were you commentating yesterday? Were you just watching?
Finlay
No, I was watching. Nearly wasn't watching because it was very stressful in our household because it was on BBC One, red button. We went on BBC One and we were all thinking, crap, where's the game? And we were like calling everyone in our family, thinking, where's the game?
Finlay
but we found it just in time.
Mike Dowling
It was because it was on iPlayer and it wasn't advertised as Farnham versus Sutton. It was advertised as some other game that was on later. I'm putting this on and I'll see if I can get anywhere from here and suddenly there I have Aggie talking to the cameras. It's like, oh, excellent.
Finlay
I think I was on chat to EBT saying, oh, how do I find Sutton versus Farnham? We got there in the end. The world in 2025. I know it's evolved so much.
Finlay
But yesterday, Personally, I think we will be disappointed not to win. I thought Farnham defended magnificently, as Andrew mentioned. Taylor, his header looked like it was in, great clearance off the line. Simpa as well, couldn't quite get it from under his feet quite quick enough, but by then they had three or four bodies on the line.
Finlay
Defensively, we weren't good enough. I think all three of their goals stemmed from our left-hand side. I was quite surprised we didn't play either Vincent or Boutin, which maybe played a factor. But I think yesterday, I thought the game was made for Dylan de Silva, I think, because Farnham played so counter-attacking.
Finlay
Every time they won it back, they immediately tried to play the ball over the top. I think with Didn's pace, I think it would have kind of been the turning point in the game. But it's great that we're still in the hat and under the lights at Gandegri Lane, you know, no question the fans are going to be, they're going to be in their numbers as Steve and Chris have praised all season. But yeah, positively going forward, I think another five minutes we would have won it, you know, I think Dukie won it back, tried to put the ball in and it was blocked.
Finlay
So I wouldn't be disappointed not to win, but Gander Green Lane, it's going to be a good day.
Mike Dowling
Well, Gander's Green Lane, as they kept calling it on the TV. I'm getting really irritated by that. I mean, do you, for you this one, do you think there was an element of underestimation or do you think they did raise their game or are they just better than their league position and we're slightly
Finlay
worse
Andrew
than our league position at the
Mike Dowling
moment? Obviously, it's going to change. Do you think there's a level of underestimation and taking it for granted?
Finlay
100%. I think, as Andrew mentioned, Farnham beat nine games, five wins, four draws, the furthest they've got in this competition. They've got a player that won, I think, that came second on Love Island, so they're very successful. I think when they won the league last year, they had 102 points, so absolutely dominated that division.
Finlay
And it's a home tie, it's kind of a derby, they're at home. So I think they were always going to be really up for it. And I think we, I think definitely there's an estimate of underestimation. You know, you go there and expect to win, but credit to Farnham.
Finlay
And it kind of reminded me of playing football when I was young, you saw all the leaves at the side of the pitch. But yeah, I thought Farnham were fantastic yesterday.
Mike Dowling
And Andrew, I mean, I'm talking about everyone in the club, not just some of the players or management. I'm talking about everyone feeling that this is just kind of a gimme because they're below us. We've been on both sides
Andrew
where
Mike Dowling
we've, like I said a couple of weeks ago, if it was a League One club, we're not going to be sitting there going, we've got no chance here. We're going to be like, oh, we're underdogs, but we're going to go for it. Do you think there was a certain amount of underestimation or just they were better?
Andrew
No, I'd put it down to confidence. I think our confidence is obviously pretty low at the moment, isn't it? Throughout the club, probably. We're in a bit of a hole at the moment, aren't we?
Andrew
We're trying to, obviously, we've appointed a new head coach. We're trying to get out of that. And obviously, like you said, this lot of two and a half years or whatever, they've been on very much an upward trajectory. I don't know about underestimating them.
Andrew
But yeah, I do think the confidence of psyche big but one thing I will say is we came back three times and that should be praised as he said in his interview after the game could have easily dropped their heads after going behind say 2-1 3-2 but kept on going kept on going so I thought that was yeah that should be praised.
Mike Dowling
No absolutely that's That's one ahead of where I was going to talk to, but we'll go for that
Andrew
now.
Mike Dowling
We're all going to be talking about the same thing, but we'll do that one now. So. Well, a few weeks ago, I did point out to Lewis that he's got a goal for Eden's head, he's got a goal on JT's head, if he could put one on Phipps's head as well, that would be lovely. That was actually on his birthday.
Mike Dowling
And he's done it, but it was like six weeks after I suggested it. So yeah, the goal after, what, 80, 90 seconds was
Andrew
a
Mike Dowling
huge setback. what we got into it, we were controlling the game, the midfield was great, I know you said we were great attacking but some of the final third decisions did leave a little bit to be desired at some points, but the character and the fight to come back three times, all from very shortly after kickoffs, by the way. So when you said, oh, if it was five more minutes to go, I'm like, maybe not, because we keep conceding five minutes after kickoff.
Mike Dowling
But do you feel that the team needs that credit? Or do you think this late comeback is just papering over some cracks? Will it build our confidence, Andrew?
Andrew
Oh, I think You see,
Mike Dowling
three goals away, no matter which way you look at it, who we're playing three goals away cannot be sniffed out ever.
Andrew
Yeah. HSA should use the 90 plus eight goal as a turning point of the season. I saw that comment yesterday by someone. So I've nicked that.
Andrew
As I said, I think we got what we deserved, so I think a draw was a fair result on the balance of it. So, yeah.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, fair enough. Finlay, yourself?
Finlay
Well, just a statistic, it was the first time we've scored three goals away from home since Barnett in, I think, December 2024, when they got that 99th minute equaliser. So, honestly, I think the character, definitely, Mike, as you said, should be praised. I do think that coming back three times could be a turning point in the season from a confidence perspective. And I think they said it on commentary, We responded quickly, which was really important because every minute that Barnum kind of stayed in the leagues, their confidence, their belief would go up and our gameplay would obviously become a little bit more rushed and panicked every minute we hadn't
Finlay
found the net. So coming back three times, the togetherness, the spirit that's shown all season, you know, when Boren went 4-2 up, Fruity, signed us a launch one from pretty much the halfway line and we're back in it again. Brighton, Addison got one back, you know, we've been staying in games right till the end and we've kept going. So, yeah, I was really impressed with the spirit that we showed yesterday.
Mike Dowling
OK, well, Andrew mentioned it earlier, so we'll come back to Andrew in a second with this one, but Harry Phipps in midfield. What did you think? I mean, there were times, and I think you were listening on comms as well, where they even mentioned that Phipps is kind of coming back to take the ball from the centre-halves and doing what they should be doing with it, just pinging it forward. Did you feel that watching it yourself, or were you like, this is a good idea, getting to screen that defence a bit more?
Finlay
You know what, I'm glad I wasn't on commentary because I'd be having a headache trying to work out where he was playing. But I think putting him in the middle of the park, I think fits with Chris's ethos of wanting to attack and getting players up the pitch. And he did look quite comfortable in the middle. You know, he picked the ball up and was playing it forward.
Finlay
He obviously had that nervy moment in the second half where he gave it away and David was a fantastic save too. I think another player who definitely should be praised. He looked quite comfortable. I definitely wasn't expecting Pips to be placed there but he got a goal so he didn't do too bad.
Finlay
Yeah,
Mike Dowling
especially after injury. What about yourself, Andrew? Especially you're there, you don't kind of have to see the bigger picture that we're able to see on TV. Were you trying to work out where he was playing or did it come
Andrew
to you
Mike Dowling
very quickly that he was in midfield?
Andrew
We couldn't work it out. He was just here, there and everywhere. He found himself up in the other team's penalty area. Initially, it looked like he was screening the defence like Barbrook was last season.
Andrew
But, yeah, he was just all over the pitch. Not all over the place, all over the pitch. All action. So, yeah, it was an interesting tactic.
Andrew
Yeah, once we settled down in the first half, we did have, like, a lot of control of the possession. And then the second half, they obviously upped it a little on us. So, yeah, we'll see what he does Tuesday.
Mike Dowling
Well, yeah, technically, I mean, it was the three at the back, it seemed. Obviously, I don't know what I'm talking about. If Chris or any others are listening, I genuinely don't know what I'm talking about. But it seemed like it was the three at the back.
Mike Dowling
And then on the right, we had Jones in a more sort of wingback position, but then David on the left in a winger position. So that's essentially why we have that space down the left is because we didn't have anyone to hold. And if we had Liam or Noah on, we potentially wouldn't have had space for David. So it's that thing of are we attacking, are we defending, do we need to pick one or the other and go for it.
Mike Dowling
But Brandon, I promised you we'd talk about Brandon. Andrew, you can go first. Off the bench impact, talk us through it.
Andrew
Well, we needed something up top. Sadly, Ashley probably didn't have one of his great games for us yesterday. But yeah, I firmly think they view N'Joka as an impact player from the bench to create carnage when the defense is tired. And boy, did he do that.
Andrew
Great. His goal was brilliantly taken. The goals two and three are just great team moves to watch. and then obviously his work for the Harris Equaliser.
Andrew
So, delighted for him. He looks a real find this season from the games that I've been to. And yeah, we need him Tuesday for sure.
Mike Dowling
Finlay, what do you think about his impact? I've got some more questions on him, but tell us what you thought about his impact
Finlay
yesterday. Just brilliant. I think Nick said it on the podcast about when we start in Juku and Madison, we haven't necessarily got that number nine to come off the bench. So it was good, you know, as you said, an impact player, fresh legs, came on, great energy.
Finlay
And it was nice to see him score a goal and obviously get an assist, because when I've been on commentary, he's had so many chances and I've been falling on the floor, just thinking, just put it in the net. So it was good to see him score. And as Andrew said, he's got to start Tuesday. Brilliant.
Mike Dowling
Well, this was going to be it. Is it a case of he needs to start or is it a case of actually coming on? He has much, much more of an impact because there's been games where he started
Andrew
and he hasn't
Mike Dowling
had quite the same impact. Is it he's good against the tired legs or would you keep Nadas to come on against tired legs? Because he can run, especially if people are tired. So Finlay, do you think definitely he's got to start or would you kind of go, actually, let's just bring him on as an impact for a little while?
Finlay
It's difficult because with Farnham being two divisions and their fitness level is not going to be as sustained as Sutton's, you kind of think that potentially bringing him on with maybe 25, half an hour to play with tight legs, he can run them right. He definitely deserves a start of his form. I'd probably give him the nod just because he's going to be high in confidence, but you never know. Knowing what Chris did with Phipps, it might be Phipps starting up front on Tuesday.
Finlay
We never know.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I mean, Andrew, same question, but as a player, would you have that kind of opinion of, well, what else do I need to do to start? Or would you be sitting there going, no, I understand what they're wanting from me, because you're running the risk of a player getting demotivated if they're staying on the bench and only coming on the
Andrew
impact for a
Mike Dowling
few minutes. But what about you? What would you do? Would you start him or would you tell him that, no, I need you to come on for that last 25, 30?
Andrew
I think it could be either or on Tuesday. I think psychologically, I don't know, Farnham, they might be a bit demoralised from conceding so late. So, yeah, that's why I say, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be averse to starting him or Netherland because I do think we will get the job done on Tuesday. I'd be tempted to start him.
Mike Dowling
Yep.
Andrew
Yeah, I'd give him a go. Going back to your point, he would be aware of his role, surely, from Chris and the coaching team, saying, look, you're definitely going to get on. You're going to get some action. So yeah, I'd like to think he wouldn't be demotivated.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, obviously short term, but I'm thinking long term. I'm
Andrew
not talking
Mike Dowling
about brand specific, I'm just talking about in general as a player. Is it difficult to be like, yeah, yeah. I can't remember, is it Milton Keynes that call them finishers? Not subs, they call them finishers.
Mike Dowling
They call them game finishers or game changers or something rather than subs, because they've got the plan and they build it into the full squad. But it must be, if you're sitting there and you've come off and you go, yeah, I've just done an assist and a goal on the bench, it must have a little bit of, Well, I'll probably get called from that is now telling me that no, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever. Leave me alone.
Andrew
It's a team
Mike Dowling
game, Mike.
Andrew
Yeah, exactly.
Mike Dowling
That's not what strikers do,
Andrew
I'm sorry.
Mike Dowling
Strikers never think it's a team game. So, post-match. Now, Steve got fairly rightly criticized for one of his comments post-match saying players need to man up and take responsibility. Did Chris kind of say the same thing but in a softer way by saying their confidence is shot, they need to, we need them to get over this, we need them to take some, you can't quite say responsibility, but do you agree with the calling, not calling out,
Mike Dowling
but saying, making a big point of saying their confidence is gone, we need this confidence to be built up?
Finlay
I think, like you said, Mike, I think Chris definitely said it in a softer tone to maybe how Steve would portray it. And I think Chris definitely praised the team for their spirit, as we've mentioned. And I think he said, you know, that they're a new group of coaching staff coming into the situation where they're going to be highly motivated, but understandably, the players are going to be pretty down with the season. And I think Chris definitely spoke about the positives, which really is what the players need to keep going.
Mike Dowling
Andrew?
Andrew
Yeah, I mentioned earlier about the confidence thing at the club. Season hasn't gone how anyone probably expected it to. So we just need that win, I think. Tuesday, hopefully, to get us going.
Mike Dowling
It's not gone that way yet. the Andrew, basically, I messaged Darren going, Christ Almighty, you're doing podcasts now, because the pre-match was 12 minutes or something long. What are you feeling about this difference? Because it's just a personality thing, I know, but do you feel it's positive or it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever?
Andrew
I think it does make a difference. I used to love all these interviews when he did them because they were so varied. And then obviously Matt had his way of being interviewed and then Steve. But yeah, I enjoyed the 12 minutes that Chris spoke on the preview.
Andrew
Insight on the situation and his views on the match, team news. Yeah, I enjoyed listening to him. Yeah. Admittedly, I didn't know much about him before he got appointed as head coach.
Andrew
So yeah, I'm enjoying listening to what he's got to say and his views.
Mike Dowling
And Finlay, what about yourself?
Finlay
I agree. I think Chris, he's a really nice guy to listen to, you know, and you can see the passion and the energy that he has, which I think will definitely rub off in the dressing room. So I think with Steve, especially towards the latter stages of his career, I think the enthusiasm, the energy in his voice was starting to decrease, which, you know, can easily rub off on the rest of the team. So Chris, great energy and yeah, really enjoyed listening to him.
Finlay
I'm looking forward to Tuesday, but not in the manager, meet the manager.
Mike Dowling
No, well, it could be, could be like literally 10 minutes. Hello, everyone. Goodbye.
Finlay
Well, it depends, maybe depends on how the game goes, you never know. You might scream for 20 minutes at the full time whistle.
Mike Dowling
And what about Dean Hammond joining as assistant manager? I mean, it was something that was possibly obvious in hindsight, but what do you feel he's going to bring with his experience? Because we've obviously lost Steve with his Premier League experience, and now we've got someone else with also Premier League experience.
Finlay
Finlay. Oh, well, I think Jon's obviously, it's gutting that Jon's obviously left because I think his energy was second to none. But with Dean, as you said, Mike, you'd expect him coming in as number two. And he's, you know, has so many good experiences.
Finlay
So I think he's gonna definitely bring the knowledge and the support for Chris. And I think they're gonna make a good team.
Mike Dowling
Andrew?
Andrew
Yeah, I think Chris speaks very highly of him, doesn't he, Dean? He's got a good track record being a player at Brighton and then at Colchester. I'm not sure if Dean was with him at Hastings, was he? Certainly at Worthing.
Andrew
Yeah, he was at
Mike Dowling
Worthing.
Andrew
I
Mike Dowling
can't remember where they joined. But it makes a difference, it must make a difference of having people you know, because Steve was quite dismissive of the idea, but when Anthony left at the end of last season and I sort of said, oh is that going to have any kind of influence on you, because obviously knowing someone's going to pick up some of these jobs without you having to think about it, it must make a difference. Steve said no, but he would, it was a stupid question in hindsight.
Mike Dowling
But it must make a big difference knowing that certain things are covered and you don't even need to have brain capacity for it. Especially if you've got your own little team around you. Again, you wonder then who's going to be the next part of it. Goalkeeping coach, fitness coach and so on.
Andrew
He's got people that he trusts obviously on board, which is huge, isn't it? Absolutely. It's got to be massive.
Mike Dowling
So, Replay. I have made a lot of positive on it. I mean, it's a perfect game plan. We get more money, hopefully for TV.
Mike Dowling
We get the gate money. We get another game. We're in the hat. Could it be a distraction for the Hartlepool match, or they're used to playing Saturday, Tuesday now?
Mike Dowling
How do you feel about the replay and possibly, I don't know if they're going to pick it for TV, they often will do, especially if they've shown it before, but what do you feel,
Andrew
Andrew? would have had a blank week training wouldn't we again to instill his ideas further so that's that's gone but you obviously would have wanted the extra game at the 90th minute mark yesterday given it so yeah that's
Mike Dowling
I know it does affect me, but do you reckon that affects the players when they go, oh, we've got blah, blah, blah. It's like, we played them a couple of weeks ago, who cares? Or do you think, oh, that's a tasty one, we'll like that. I think we're going to get Chatham, by the way, because Topay scored and put Chatham through.
Andrew
Oh, yeah, he did see that.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. But Finlay, what do you reckon? Is it good with the extra money, the extra game, or is it a distraction now?
Finlay
I think the first positive is that Hartlepool also have a replay because they drew to Gainsborough yesterday so that's that's one good advantage. I hope it is shown on TV because I'm commentating so you might even get my first paycheck if it's on the BBC but no I think
Mike Dowling
it's... You're under 18, you can't have it.
Finlay
Oh, that's just ruined, ruined my dream. But no, I think, I think it's really positive. I definitely think the maintenance team at Sutton are going to need a pay rise because we've got Farnham Tuesday, the FA Youth Cup on Wednesday and then Hartlepool on Saturday. So three games at Gandergree Lane, which potentially promises to be a very good week.
Finlay
But no, I think, I think really tomorrow, Tuesday, it could, depending how the game goes, I think it could be a real big confidence boost for Sutton. You know, if we go and win that game, you know, let's say two, three, four nil confidence going into Hockeypool, all of a sudden it's all three games unbeaten, three, four, five goals. So really it could, it could really change the season I think on Tuesday.
Mike Dowling
Yep. I mean, I'm going to ask you this first, Finlay, because Andrew won't answer without swearing until he's composed himself. There's already been some people moaning. Everything's the same.
Mike Dowling
No changes. This manager's not done anything different. Why are we doing this? Do you think that's fair or ridiculous, or how long before people have a right to do that?
Mike Dowling
I think never, but how long do you think people should be saying
Finlay
to the
Mike Dowling
manager before they start moaning about things?
Finlay
Well, Mike, despite, luckily, I will not swear, despite you not knowing me that long, but I won't be swearing, don't worry. I think it's ludicrous. He's come in a couple of weeks ago, you know, with all due respect, he's not coming into an easy project. You know, his players are demotivated, but I think there have been positives.
Finlay
I thought brain tree, we had chances, but at the end of the day, we defended well and we got a point away from home. Three goals scored yesterday. So I think he's going to need time. You know, no manager comes in and hits the ground running unless you've got Saudi Arabia owners and you've got loads of money,
Mike Dowling
but... Moving in. Yeah, ain't going to
Finlay
happen. No, you know what? I think, um, no, I really like Chris. I really like him.
Finlay
And obviously what, unfortunately, Steve went through with, with some abuse of his family. You never want that to happen, so you don't want that to happen to Chris. But no, I think we're moving in a good direction. Two unbeaten.
Finlay
So on to Tuesday,
Mike Dowling
really. It wasn't that you wouldn't swear, is it? I felt Andrew probably would. Andrew, you've had a few minutes to compose yourself, and I've seen your responses on some of the comments.
Mike Dowling
That's why I said
Andrew
it. Never swear on your podcast, Mike.
Mike Dowling
Yeah,
Andrew
I'd agree with what Finlay's said. Ludicrous would be a good word. Yeah, the guy needs time, doesn't he? Yeah, a new coach into a role, yeah.
Andrew
You need that time on the training pitch to instill your ideas, yeah. I've not
Mike Dowling
seen anyone's called for him just moaning about the same old, same old
Andrew
problem. Yeah, I've seen those comments. Yesterday I felt key starters not playing. Sims wasn't there.
Andrew
I think we've missed Alex Woodyard massively for the last two months. Our best centre-back's not been playing, Alex Kirk. And then there's two lads on international. I don't like using the excuse of players missing, but, you know, it's worth pointing out.
Andrew
But yeah, like Trinley says, two games unbeaten. Let's set a bit of a platform to build and, yeah, get a win on Tuesday. Hartlepool have to set their manager. So, yeah, could we win there on next week?
Andrew
Yeah. Who knows?
Mike Dowling
Saw that. So... Just going to go through a couple of things that were sent to me. So, 3-3 to a semi-professional team isn't great, but then again, Jovo just lost at Hemel Hempstead, Hartlepool drew at Gainsborough, which you mentioned Finlay, Solihull lost at Ebbsfleet, and Truro couldn't get past AFC Totten.
Mike Dowling
And two of those teams are above us on the National League. So, kind of put it into perspective a little bit. The defence, obviously everyone's been going, it's terrible, blah, blah, blah. But in the 12 minute interview, he did massively big up the defense.
Mike Dowling
He said they did really, really well at Brain Tree, so they've all got their spot. And I'm like, what did that, did that mean everyone's feeling comfortable all of a sudden? So it was like, was the defense that bad or was everyone's expectations raised by him digging them up a little bit? I don't know.
Mike Dowling
The channels, the fact that it kept getting pumped down to the sort of left-hand especially channel and nothing happening, was that frustrating in the flesh as it was watching Andrew?
Andrew
Yeah, the goals we conceded were amateur defending. It was a catalogue of errors for the first goal that shouldn't have happened on numerous counts. Like you said, the second goal should have been cleared. by Mr. Phipps, I think.
Andrew
Sorry. And then the third goal. The third goal was a good finish, actually, on a half-volley, if I remember rightly. He's still got quite a bit of work to do when the ball's coming across the box.
Andrew
But, yeah, I did a big question marks about defending yesterday.
Mike Dowling
We're sending it into their left-back role constantly, constantly, and it's not working.
Andrew
Yeah, I think we were trying to diagonally pinpoint their left back, weren't we? Well, either side, because obviously Brandon down our left, but their left back, yeah, we were trying to attack their flanks. And for a time, yeah, their left back was kind of mopping everything up. During that second half, it was a bit frustrating.
Andrew
I think when we were 2-1 down, we were pressing. But we got there in the end.
Mike Dowling
And lastly, Flare, I don't care if they ever become legal, I will hate them forever and ever. You are literally burning money and putting smoke into everyone's lungs. Your guys' views on the Flare, well, Finlay, you would have seen it same as me on TV as it's sort of gone across for the, I mean, If they're going to do it, the time measure was all right, because we just scored a 98th minute equaliser. But what's your views on the Flares, considering it's going to cost us money?
Finlay
I'm glad I didn't have a microphone in my hand, because I don't know what I would have said. But no, you know, 98 minute equaliser, obviously, adrenaline's flying through the roof. So you kind of understand. But no,
Andrew
I'm
Finlay
never really a massive fan on the Flares. It always delays the game. It's an issue for the referee. But then saying that, you never know if we're winning on Tuesday, I might even chuck one from the gantry,
Mike Dowling
so... You won't. You won't. They're illegal to bring to football.
Finlay
I think that'll be never on the podcast
Andrew
again if ever did that.
Mike Dowling
Andrew, what's your thoughts on
Andrew
that? Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the two big negatives of cost. It's obviously going to cost us money. We're not learning because it's not the first time.
Andrew
and probably won't be the last time that it happens. And yeah, inhaling those fumes can't be good. I don't know why they're so big on the continent, though, like pyrotechnics. It's free game on the continent.
Andrew
Everyone does it.
Mike Dowling
So there's different types, I believe, and some are more incendiary than others. One thing I just always disagree with is clubs in the UK should not glamorize it because even if we had the nice ones that people were allowed, if you get up in the morning with a flare and go to a football match, you could be arrested outside your front door because you've intended to go to a football match with one.
Andrew
And
Mike Dowling
yet clubs always, when it happens, they love having these pictures of the smoke going across the fans. don't glamorize it because it's it's the same as putting up pictures of people fighting you you can't do this um but yeah in the continent there are different ones there was um a massive display at Dundalk the other day um literally in it was like the Collingwood side the fans all squeezed in there and just almost like fireworks going off and i'm like oh my god i would freak out i can't stand this But yeah, they are slightly different, I believe. And obviously, we're all very, very, very, probably over health and safety on it because of the whole Bradford fire
Andrew
incident, which
Mike Dowling
wasn't caused by flair, but it's obviously we have all these rules in place, but I'm all for them because I can't stand them. They stink as well. But anyway, let's go again. So Finlay, they mentioned several times on the commentary, I don't know if you picked up that phylamonium train on a Wednesday.
Mike Dowling
It might be mentioned about a thousand times. Do you think that's going to play into our hands? Because obviously we've got a day's training tomorrow and they don't have any training to prepare. Do you think that's going to factor into it?
Mike Dowling
Do you think the professional is going to factor into it? But obviously they do play a Saturday, Tuesday anyway. But do you think that's going to help us? A
Finlay
hundred percent. I think kind of without the ball being kicked, that's already an advantage. Maybe their bosses will let them have a day off work. Maybe they can stop being an electrician and they can have an extra training session.
Finlay
But no, it definitely plays into our hands. And you could see, I think around the 80 minute mark, three or four of those players were going down with cramp. So definitely fitness wise, we have an advantage and we've got the pace to do it. So maybe the key is taking it to extra time.
Finlay
and they'll be on the floor and we'll just walk through. But no, at the end of the day, Farnham, their adrenaline will still be absolutely buzzing, and the money for them as well, and a way tie, so.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I mean, they're going to have a sense of not just disappointment, which Andrew said earlier, but they may have a sense of injustice. But then one of their guys was down for cramp for sort of two of the six minutes, and that's why it was added on at the end.
Finlay
I didn't quite agree with what their manager said about Sutton won't get any better in three or four days, but we will. So that's quite a statement to say. We'll see.
Mike Dowling
Maybe we need to print it off and put it on our dressing room, right? Absolutely, with Solihull. Andrew, what do you think? Do you think training is going to come into it?
Mike Dowling
Do you think professionalism is going to come into it now with the quick turnaround?
Andrew
should do, physiologically, psychologically. And I actually think the adrenaline factor, yeah, they would have been so pumped up yesterday. Their big game at home, biggest game in their history, they were calling it. And then having the hopes dashed with our last-minute equaliser, I surely got to, yeah, sting a bit.
Andrew
So I think, yeah, we've got to Yeah, just go out, be professional, hope the chances come, which I'm sure they will, and just take them. But I do think, yeah, fitness will probably play a part. They would have done a lot of running yesterday, especially in the first half when we had a lot of the ball, a lot of chasing. So, yeah, the quick turnaround of the games.
Andrew
I know you said they're used to Saturday, Tuesday anyway, but against a team two divisions higher, it's gonna, you'd imagine, take its toll somewhere through that second half to sustain their levels. I can't see it.
Mike Dowling
And, I mean, it wasn't just the biggest game in their history, and that's not been us being all, we're your cup final, it's the furthest they've ever got. And I believe it was there, it was a sellout on a record attendance for them as well, which is even more than Crouchy a few weeks ago. So that's great for us. Would you mix it up a little bit, Andrew?
Mike Dowling
Or would you kind of just go again, as we were similar formation, similar personnel?
Andrew
I think, presumably, we're going to have a similar squad available. It was my first viewing of Boutin, of Boutin, the lad from Bournemouth. I thought he was really quite bright when he came on down the left. So, maybe put him in at left wing-back.
Andrew
but presumably you're not going to have any of the injured players back or the two lads on international duty. So it's going to be the same squad of players to choose
Mike Dowling
from. You never know whether David's going to start or not. But we'll see. Finlay, what about yourself?
Mike Dowling
Go again, mix it up.
Finlay
I think like Andrew, definitely start either Vincent or Boutin to have that solid left cover. I'd put Mo in there as well. I know he came on. I just think his pace, his energy could be a turning point in the game.
Finlay
Other than that, we haven't got players to really choose from with Kane and Dibben still out. Wouldn't put Phipps up front, definitely wouldn't do that. But no, I think we'll make some changes, I'm sure we will, because I think Chris said that three players came off of cramp at the end of the game. So I'm sure he'll assess their situations.
Mike Dowling
Two players not mentioned, I can't really understand why I didn't bring him up earlier, but a very quick word for love for Jadon. He kept running, little Duracell bunnies, getting a little bit back to how he was. Finlay, you go first.
Finlay
Yeah, I thought he was great yesterday. Obviously what the equaliser which I actually thought went wide because it kind of bounced out of the goal and for a minute I thought it was like the back balls and I'm thinking oh what a miss and then all of a sudden I'm like oh never mind we've equalised. But even his strength as well I think to play it off to Ogbonna to put it to Ndugu he was brilliant yesterday and definitely Mike he's getting back to his old self.
Mike Dowling
It was one of the replays I watched again and literally he bounced one of their players off of him. The guy kind of went shoulder to shoulder with him and he kind of rebounded about another three yards. Andrew, quick word on Jadon.
Andrew
Yeah, I thought he had a pretty solid game. He's someone that sometimes I think he tries too hard. I have in my mind. But his contributions to the goals were great.
Andrew
Never gave up, kept going. And then, yeah, the energy to get into the box to score the equaliser at 90 plus 8. Yeah, got to hand it to him. And yeah, like you said, the strength to brush off the defenders for the second goal as well.
Andrew
Yeah, he contributed well yesterday.
Mike Dowling
And other quick word. David Azar came in with a few minutes to prepare against the Oval. Against the Oval, the goals he conceded were a deflection and a penalty or a penalty and a deflection. I can't remember which way round.
Mike Dowling
Braintree, clean sheet. Yesterday, three goals conceded, but I'm not sure finger of blame could be pointed at him for all of them. How do you think he's coming in for Jack Simms? Obviously, you mentioned as well, Jack's out, we don't know how long before, but I think he's done superbly.
Mike Dowling
Andrew?
Andrew
Yeah, I like him. He seemed quite comfortable with the ball at his feet yesterday. They kept passing back to him etc. Like yourself, I don't think really blame for any of their goals. He made a very, very good save shortly after their first goal.
Andrew
And I think he made a very good save after they went 3-2 up as well. That kind of kept us in the tie, obviously, at that point. Pretty sure it were two very smart saves. Or two went up, was it?
Andrew
Two went up, was it? But no, looks good. Hasn't let us down. So yeah, presumably gets the shirt on Tuesday night again.
Mike Dowling
And Finlay yourself,
Finlay
I
Mike Dowling
mean, one thing I really liked was the fact that when one of the girls went in, he just turned around as a young boy and started screaming at his defence. But Finlay, what do
Finlay
you think? No, I love David ever since he joined the club. I remember his debut against Wimbledon in the pre-season. Wimbledon could have gone and won that game three or four too.
Finlay
I think he made three or four outstanding saves. He's a great guy, and it's always going to be difficult to get a consistent run of games when you're second to Jack Sims. But no, as Andrew said, it could have been 2-0 before we even created one of our own. Again, when Fitz gave the ball away early on in the second half, it was another great save.
Finlay
So yeah, I was really pleased with David yesterday, and hopefully he'll get a clean sheet on Tuesday just to get his confidence out a little bit higher. But no, I'm really pleased with him.
Mike Dowling
Excellent. Well, I know you do the prediction league. So just to let you know, I'm going to ask you for a prediction, but you can change your mind. All right.
Mike Dowling
So when you answer, you just, you can change your mind. So what is your early prediction for Tuesday night?
Finlay
I thought I was good at predictions because I said we'd win 3-0 at the weekend, but that completely went out the window. I did get three, I did get three, but I wasn't expecting fitness to score first. I think, as everything we've mentioned fitness-wise, home advantage, we won't have the flares but we'll have the drum, which is much, much better than the flare. I think we'll win 2-0.
Finlay
2-0?
Mike Dowling
Andrew?
Andrew
I was going to say exactly the same, two nil something. So that's what I'm going to stick with.
Mike Dowling
Excellent. Well, I've gone 1-0 with Nadas to score. Whether that's off the bench or from the start,
Andrew
I
Mike Dowling
don't know, but I've gone for 1-0. Gemini has gone for 2-1 and Jaden to score. And I've got to say fair play to Andy Rudge because he's the only one that's keeping Gemini off top spot at the moment because I don't know how AI, who doesn't know who's playing for us half the time, can get this far ahead. But everyone needs to up their game a little bit.
Mike Dowling
Anyway, that wraps up this episode of Sutton Podcast. As always, we appreciate everyone's attention and feedback. Get involved, follow, like, share Sutton Podcast on your social medias, let us know what you think, let us know what you'd like to hear, let us know what you thought of the players chat the other day. Andrew will tell you I had like an hour before recording, I was like, I have no idea what I'm going to ask them.
Mike Dowling
I got through it, I think. Big thank you to Lucky Star Gin and our guest today, Andrew and Finlay. Well done on your debut, Finlay. And thanks to you listeners.
Mike Dowling
I hope you've enjoyed this episode of Summer Podcast. Take care and we'll catch up soon.
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