Hello & welcome to another episode of Sutton United Talk Time on Podcast. This was a double-header special after back-to-back home wins for Sutton United against Woking and Wealdstone.
Joining me were Gabriel, full of cautious optimism, and Mark, one of our regular voices who had finally shaken off his three-week cold. Between them, they brought perspective, realism and a bit of tactical chat to what felt like a turning point week at Gander Green Lane.
The standout theme? Momentum is fragile, but confidence changes everything.
Mike Dowling
Hello and welcome to another episode of Sutton United Talk Time on podcast. It's the Sutton podcast in association with Lucky Star Gin. If you're a regular listener, thank you very much for joining us again. And if you're a new listener, thank you.
Mike Dowling
Very welcome. I'm your host, Mike. And with me today, we have Gabriel and Mark. Don't forget, we'd love to hear from you.
Mike Dowling
We'd love for you to join in the conversations, stay connected, share your thoughts on every episode, chat with other fans, let me know what you'd like to hear in the future. Catch up on social medias at Sutton Podcast on all of them, really. The likes, the shares, the retweets and the thumbs up, I like them. They really do help and thanks to everyone who does it on a regular basis.
Mike Dowling
So, when I planned all this, first of all, I'm going to start with Gabriel, a little apology because he was supposed to be on on Wednesday, but I was doing, look at these delicate hands, I was doing manual labour, I hurt my back, so I couldn't do it properly, so he happily deferred to today, so we're doing a bit of a double episode. But how are you, Gabriel?
Gabriel
Good, good, good. Finally having a good run, so I feel optimistic now.
Mike Dowling
Excellent. Yeah. I mean, it did also put to pay the conversations that I cancel when we lose games because I'm like, well, I can't because we've done lots of podcasts and we've lost lots of games. But also, Mark, how are you?
Mark
Yeah, I'm fine, thank you. I've finally shaken off the cold that was dogging me for about three weeks, so much relief there.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, and it's a rare home game for you. You're usually one of my away correspondents.
Mark
Yeah, yeah. We've got a few of those coming up, of course, but I don't think I'm down to do any of them.
Mike Dowling
Some nice long ones in the next few weeks. Don't forget, there is the Chris and Phil talk show this week. It's on Tuesday. So if you haven't booked your ticket, it's free event for season ticket holders, but they want to know who's coming so they can manage bar staff, I should imagine.
Mike Dowling
So just book that. And the ladies team today were against New Haven and they were at home, but Cobham, so they were away at home and they were one deal up quite early on, but ended in a draw. So one, one draw for the ladies team. So that's another good result for them.
Mike Dowling
So, firstly, let's start with the Woking match, going into it with a little kind of almost trepidation. Just before kickoff, we had the wonderful news that Jack had injured his back, so Chris Hay was there, David was on the bench, and
Mark
I can't remember if it was told or not, but David did actually had a knee injury or something.
Mike Dowling
I think there was some injury he had as well, but he kind of had to play. But we'll start with you, Mark. Going into that game, what was your hopes and expectations? And apart from Jack, was there any surprises in the lineup for you?
Mark
I don't think there are any major surprises. Obviously, I was hoping we'd win. A little bit of trepidation, given that some of the recent results and performances have been disappointing. But, you know, I thought we had a decent chance.
Mark
I thought working were pretty average sort of side. And I thought if we could raise our game, as we did, we could beat them.
Mike Dowling
Gabriel, what was your thoughts heading into the game? Were there any expectations from you? Was there any shocks to the line-up?
Gabriel
I was hoping for the best, but I was afraid of another draw. And yeah, I would have expected maybe after the game against Braintree, I would have expected Harris and Ogbona to start.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. I mean, we knew Charlie Bell wasn't going to start after his ninja kick. He denies all accusations that he was just trying to get sent off to avoid a trip to Hartlepool on Valentine's Day. He absolutely flatly denied that.
Mike Dowling
But we started very quickly, Gabriel. Was it five minutes? Four or five minutes?
Gabriel
Yeah. It's not even the first time that we score in the first five minutes. And the history again was not a positive one. We had a draw 1-1.
Gabriel
Almost similar with this one. After 20 minutes, they scored for 1-1 from a pass from our goalkeeper, I think.
Mike Dowling
We'll come to that. But did you see our opening goal or were you still on duty?
Gabriel
No, I've seen it.
Mike Dowling
Excellent. What were you feeling at 1-0? Were you like sitting there going, oh God, that's a long time to defend or were you a little bit positive?
Gabriel
Of course, starting with 1-0, it's a positive development. I started to be negative after what happened later.
Mike Dowling
Well, Mark, I certainly was thinking, oh, that's a long time to go. How were you feeling at 1-0 and Kai scoring that goal?
Mark
Well, just going ahead, it doesn't matter what stage of the game it is, particularly, you know, it always gives you a lift, doesn't it? And it was a very well-worked goal. So, I thought we started on the front foot, you know, that's very encouraging, a long way to go, but yeah, you can't help but feel positive after taking an early lead in such a manner.
Mike Dowling
And then Chris Hay decided that he would He would get the disease of just passing it to an opposition player, thinking they didn't have as many shots, they weren't doing very well, so he thought he'd give them a little bit of a boost. How were you feeling? Because there was quite a bit of play around the back at the time, and we were very successful, we were very... with it.
Mike Dowling
Were you expecting the worst when we started doing that, or did you think, oh, we've finally cracked this?
Mark
Mark? Well, yeah, it was a question of, yeah, here we go again, you know, we're being pressed and, you know, short passes out from the back are not very clever if the opposition's pressing you effectively. So, you know, that goal was a bit of a blow. and I think at that point a lot of us who've been feeling quite positive started to, you know, fear the worst and thinking well, well, maybe the best we're going to get from this game is another point which is, you know, less than what we needed.
Mike Dowling
Gabriel, I know you're keen to talk about this one because you've mentioned it a couple of times. How did you feel about the goal that we conceded?
Gabriel
I feel that after the... because at the beginning when Chris came as a coach, it worked just fine and it created us the opportunity to attract the opposition in our field and to go and maybe even score some goals from this build-up. from the keeper. But after the Shrewsbury game that was live on BBC, everybody knows that we have this vulnerability and they are trying to get it.
Gabriel
On the other hand, this was more a mistake from the keeper rather than a mistake from the build-up style. He gave it away, basically.
Mike Dowling
Yes, it's a terrible pass. So we've won one, but then Brandon jumped in. and he then scored to restore our lead. How were you at that point, Gabriel?
Mike Dowling
I know it changed shortly afterwards, but how were you at the point where we've restored our 2-1 lead?
Gabriel
We have seen, I'm still remembering the Brentwood 3-0 game, and we have seen the offensive force of N'Joku, of Harris, of Simpard, of Bona, so we can score goals. It was proven, now we know because of what happened yesterday. The defense is the one that has to hold better in some games.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, we'll come to that holding better. Mark, how were you feeling at 2-1?
Mark
Well, it's a question of mood swings again. You're up, you're down, you're up again. You know, football's often like that. And having started to fear the worst after their equaliser, suddenly we were all buoyant again.
Mark
You know, another goal, 2-1 up. So, you know, it was back in a positive mood.
Mike Dowling
and that lasted for not very long because um well i i thought i came up with a great joke of his haybue but no one else found that funny but anyway it was it wasn't it wasn't the best debut um giving away a goal almost well not almost definitely giving away a goal and then uh a decision to take down their striker. He was saying I was offside anyway, but I'm not massively sure that would have made a difference, but I think Junior was playing him on. But Mark, how...
Mike Dowling
I mean, this was about 30 minutes or so, even earlier than Charlie's one. So Charlie's one... I think it's 32, yeah.
Mark
Yeah, we had to play
Mike Dowling
But how were you feeling at the red card?
Mark
Well, I mean, the mood on the Gander Green Lane Terrace, you know, was pretty grim at that point. I mean, quite a few of our our well-known supporters were saying, you know, we've done it again, you know, another red card, God, we're committing curry curry, you know, we're shooting ourselves in the foot, all the cliches were coming out and the mood turned very gloomy at that point. Incidentally, that was Chris Haig's league debut for us, but he had played for us previously in the Surrey's Unicup, of course, against Hawley.
Mark
didn't have a great deal to do. I think he saved one free kick, did quite well with that. Apart from that, he was largely untroubled against a combined Counters League opposition, obviously different sort of standard of opposition on Tuesday last. But yeah, when you've got to play well over half the game with 10 men, you do fear the worst.
Mark
But crucially, we did have the lead at that point. I think the team had something to hang on to, something to defend. And I think that probably was a factor in the performance of the Sutton team from that point onwards.
Mike Dowling
Gabriel, what did you think of when we had the red card? Did you think of the running out and taking out their striker?
Gabriel
Well, the first thought was about the statistics. How many times did this happen? I didn't read. I know you put the statistics on the group.
Gabriel
I didn't read it, but I know we are leading. the National League on this matter. A lot of them happened recently, in the past couple of months. This is a major issue and it should be addressed by the management of the team.
Mike Dowling
Were you confident you could hold on or were you fearing the worst?
Gabriel
You cannot know. We have played a great half an hour in 10 men against Braintree. Really great. It was much better than the one hour before with 11 men on the field.
Gabriel
But playing for 70 minutes, including the extension time with one man down, it's quite difficult.
Mike Dowling
Absolutely. But we did, everyone raised their game. They, I mean, it's difficult. I know people do try to pick out certain things, but I mean, you've had Simpa rattle the crossbar, so we had chances.
Mike Dowling
And one of the players I want to talk about, Jermaine Francis, I was told, and I've desperately searched for the message, desperately. for the message and I cannot find out where someone told me, but someone told me, oh, good luck with him, he's a lazy player. Which after Tuesday night, I've been thinking, Christ, imagine if he put some effort in then, because he was, he didn't feel like we're down to 10 men with him in the side. I mean, how did you rate the performance of the 10 men, Gabriel?
Gabriel
Yeah, absolutely. It was great. We created chances with a little bit of inspiration and maybe a little bit of altruism. we would have scored at least another goal.
Gabriel
There's about a couple of chances in which our striker doesn't pass to the man that is free in a great position. So, yeah, it was at times heroic.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, yeah, they definitely felt like they were defending for their lives. I mean, Mark, what stood out for you? Obviously for me, Jermaine running up and down and all over the place, but what stood out for you?
Mark
Yeah, I mean, much the same. I mean, after the sending off, I mean, the rest of the first half was a bit of a non-event. I don't recall either side having any serious chances in the remainder of the first half. But it was in the second half, you know, pretty much from the word go, that we really raised our game and started to, you know, attack with pace, counterattack with pace, working off as he had a load of the ball because they had the extra man, but they
Mark
didn't do a huge amount with it. Whereas when we got the ball, we were just like, you know, terriers. And, you know, Jermaine Francis certainly caught the eye, I think, you know, all his teammates were contributing to that performance. You know, Kai Jennings, Lewis Simper, Hayden Muller and all the others were all part of that, you know, counterattacking initiative that we had to adopt.
Mark
in that second half, and we had the better chances. We probably should have scored at least one more goal. Woking, I think, had very, very few presentable chances with the man advantage.
Mike Dowling
And some news that kind of came to light yesterday, well, for the management and the squad, it came to light on Wednesday, Thursday. People were told about it yesterday. It was announced in the hospitality, so I don't know how widely everyone knows this, but apparently Big Dave, who was in goal, has terrible, terrible eyesight and should be wearing his contact lenses or prescription goggles that he's got, and he just doesn't wear them. And his eyesight got worse at night.
Mike Dowling
And he kept saying, oh, it's not that bad. But he brought them in, and all the lads apparently started looking through them. Basically, he's blind. So on the one hand, it's like, that's a worry.
Mike Dowling
And we've got a keeper who can't really see. But as Aggie said, Dave's never been on the losing side for him. I know he has previously for us. But now we've got a solution, and a six foot whatever goalkeeper who you can now see, we could have the best goalkeeper in the world on our hands.
Mike Dowling
He's done well without it. But yeah, so we win the game. How will you Did you think that was a one-off, a bit of a derby boost, Mark? Did you think, OK, that's that game aside?
Mike Dowling
Did you take any confidence coming in to Saturday against Wilston?
Mark
Oh, certainly took confidence. You know, if we can play like that with 10 men and we can adopt a similar approach with 11 men, we must have a great chance of winning against Wilston. I think most of the Sutton faithful felt much the same. It was a really positive experience seeing those 10 men win the game, hold on to the lead against a decent working side.
Mark
They probably weren't at their best, to be fair, on Tuesday, but even so, they're not a bad side. We've got some good players, including some excellent players, of course, and they barely laid a glove on us in the second half.
Mike Dowling
No, absolutely. Against 10 men and potentially a blind goalkeeper, we did really, really well. Gabriel, what were your thoughts heading into this game? Did you have the confidence that we were going to do well?
Gabriel
I did have the confidence, but it was a must win also, because the pressure is pretty big. Three points advantage is not enough to feel comfortable, especially that I think we are left with six games at home and nine away or something like that. At least two more games away than at home. The positive results came mostly at home lately.
Mike Dowling
One jokey thing I said was maybe we need to start with 10 men as a tactic because we seem to be playing so well. And then on 15 minutes, Junior did a challenge. I have to admit, I was a little bit worried at that time, thinking I was joking. What did you make of that early challenge, Gabriel, from Junior to 13, 14 minutes, I think it was?
Gabriel
A bit, I feel that the referees have changed in the past couple of years. I remember, do you remember the game, the first win we had in the AFL against Stevenage? When Bennett scored, we were down 0-1 I think, and Bennett scored by pushing by two hands so visibly the opponent and making space for him. And it was allowed, you know, and I feel that it was allowed much more.
Gabriel
three, four years ago, then it is allowed now. Even the challenge of Charlie Bell would have probably... No, no, no, no! Okay, maybe I'm thinking of the time of Vinnie Jones then.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, even further back, grossiness! What about yourself, Mark? Were you nervous when there was the little... I mean, Wilston were jumping up at the referee and making lots of noise, as every team does now.
Mike Dowling
Were you a little bit concerned?
Mark
Yeah, I mean, from where I was, it looked like just a badly timed challenge, and I thought it ought to be a yellow card, but you never know with the refs these days, and there was a slight worry that it might be a red card. I mean, obviously, a lot of the Wilston fans were with chanting for a red, but I spoke to a Wilson supporter after the game. He was quite close to the incident. In his view, the yellow card was the correct decision.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, you're always going to call for a red as a fan, no matter what. First half, I mean, it was bits and pieces, but nothing really dramatic. I don't think I was uncomfortable at any point. I think, as I said, it was a back and forth, but nothing really dramatic.
Mike Dowling
Mark, did you feel uncomfortable at any point in that first half?
Mark
The only uncomfortable moment was right at the end of the half when their guy tried to chip Jack Simms and he managed to claw the ball out of the air. It was more or less directly above the line, I think. He wasn't able to hold it. He dropped it.
Mark
Luckily, Eden Prudy was on hand to boot it out for a corner, which came to nothing. That was a nervous moment. But apart from that, I thought we pretty much controlled the game. I thought we were the better side without really kind of dominating the play.
Mark
I think the best save that the Wilston keeper made in the first half was from one of his own players. And then I think there was a follow-up shot that was cleared off the line. But that was about the closest we came. I think it followed a free kick in the first half to scoring.
Mark
I think Kai Jennings had a shot that was more or less straight at the keeper. Lewis Simperhead had a chance over. It was a lovely ball from Doncourt across that nobody got on the end of and whizzed out I think for either a goal kick or a throw in for Winston. But we were the better side, but there's always a slight worry that, you know, if you're the better side in 45 minutes and you haven't got the lead, that, you know, things could turn against you in the second half.
Mark
Luckily, that didn't happen to us. But there was that slight concern that, you know, we didn't quite impose ourselves on the game in the way that perhaps we could have done.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I was actually in line with that save from Jack and can't believe I actually forgot it because it was a great save because I was walking around at that point. So yeah, awful memory. Gabrielle, what about yourself? How did you feel in that first half for the Wheelstone game?
Mike Dowling
Were you fairly comfortable? Were you fairly confident at that point?
Gabriel
Yeah, we looked good even in the first half without scoring. We had a couple of good chances. We created a little bit of combinations that put the opposition on the wrong foot. The team starts to look better.
Gabriel
The confidence starts to come back because I remember we had a very good moment in November with four wins in the league, I think, and one in the FA Cup. And then it came that last minute goal from Shrewsbury and everything fell apart. I didn't understand what happened.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. Yeah. It was, I think there was a lot of momentum and adrenaline and it just kept them going and going and going. And once that bubble burst, it was difficult to get that back.
Mike Dowling
I don't know why. I'm not, I'm not an expert on these things, but I'll put it down to like when you're at working and you're working and working and working, as soon as you get a chance to rest, you suddenly feel absolutely knackered, even though you were fine. Yeah, it was a great start. I think it's less than 12 minutes.
Gabriel
I think in the 53rd minute it was already 2-0.
Mike Dowling
Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah, you're right. Sorry.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I can see that now. But how, I mean, Hayden's goal, what made me laugh is his mum and dad are at most matches. His mum's pretty much at every match and neither of them were there yesterday. So that was quite amusing.
Mike Dowling
He found that quite funny as well. So maybe they won't come as often. But how are you kind of feeling at the two goals? I mean, Simp's goal again, a great, a great shot, great goal.
Mike Dowling
What were you thinking at that point?
Gabriel
Yeah, I think we didn't have many goals lately from our CBs. We used to have a lot in the good times of the first year in the AFL, for example. It's great to have goals from the defenders. Simpard is definitely my favourite player in the team.
Gabriel
It's easy to be like this. I was so impressed with his attitude in the game against Braintree when we were one man down. We were desperate to equalise and he was asking for all the balls he was trying to create, he was trying to push his teammates. He's absolutely a great player.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, and he's one of the first to sort of turn to the ground to try and pump everyone up as well, which is quite infectious. Mark, how were you sort of feeling at the two goals and what was your pick of those two early goals?
Mark
Yeah, you've got a two-goal cushion, you know, you feel a lot more comfortable, obviously, with a one-nil lead, there's always a chance that there's some disaster at the back and they equalise and, you know, we've experienced that lately. But once we went 2-0 up, I felt fairly confident we'd go on to claim three points. I thought Wilson maybe would get one back, but I didn't think they'd get two. I was really pleased for Peyton Muller, who incidentally was playing as a defensive midfielder, not a centre-back.
Mark
We seem to be playing a 4-2-2-2 formation now, which seems to be quite effective. We look rather more solid than perhaps we were earlier in the season. But, yeah, I think we talked about the Shrewsbury game and that late equaliser that they got and they went on to win. I think it took us almost two months to recover from that.
Mark
We did seem to go into a bit of a slump, a bit of a shell. Obviously, he had all the injuries and suspensions as well over the kind of festive period, which didn't help. But I think Simpa and Jennings both had kind of dips in form during that period. But in the last couple of games, they seem to be back to their best or something very close to their best, which is great news because, you know, when they're on song, they're terrific players and lovely free kick from since Hayden's debut goal for Sutton and a cracking
Mark
second goal rather than trying to hit it into the roof of the net as he's tried a few times lately and ended up hitting the bar. He tried a low, low shot and it just rocketed into the far corner. Yeah, terrific, terrific strike.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, and then, I mean, one thing you mentioned with the 4-4-2 there, Junior seems to have been moved inside.
Mark
Yeah, Julia Van Drenge is a centre-back alongside Eden Prudy, I think, and Donkor and Topolage are the full-backs, but they've got licence to get forward because if you play with that formation, you've not got much natural width. Bonner, for example, isn't starting now. He used to give us a lot of attacking flair down the wing, but I noticed that both the full-backs were getting forward when they could and getting the occasional ball into the box. so that the two fall back for providing the width and that formation seems to be working well.
Mark
Let's hope it continues.
Mike Dowling
You mentioned Bez there, he ended up on the chair to do strike as a key. Poor boy was absolutely mortified, he really did not look comfortable at all standing there in a blue jacket. So I think he had to pull the ball out and then whoever it was wasn't there so he had to do the key as well. So yeah, poor man.
Mike Dowling
And Chris Hay also ended up doing it and somebody he started off chants of off off off, which wasn't very nice.
Mark
Was he wearing a dunce's hat when he did that?
Mike Dowling
No, he wasn't. I was told by Jack Sims that that wasn't very nice. The last goal, I have a theory that David has a higher assist bonus than he does a goal bonus because he hit the crossbar for Kai to then head it in. I mean, that was just the icing on the cake, wasn't it, Mark?
Mark
Two nil was coming, three nil perfect. David came on for the last, was it 10 minutes or so? He was playing in a more central position than he's used to, but obviously he's got that pace and he's got the finishing ability. Didn't quite get the finish right, but it wasn't the easiest of chances.
Mark
He struck the bar and it was the second goal of the day with a stooping header. Jennings had to stoop a bit, but made a nice connection. He did more or less an open goal. So the keep was a bit off his line at that point.
Mark
And that was, as you say, the icing on the cake. And once we got 3-0 up, there was no coming back. Incidentally, you might not have seen it yet, but there was a message on the podcast group. Wolfsburg has sacked Sam Cox.
Mark
I think that's one win in 13 league games now for them. So it's not a huge surprise, but the Wimbledon manager has lost his job following that result yesterday.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I think someone needs to go back and have a little look at all the different managers over the years that have lost or been fired off, because I'm sure it's happened quite a lot.
Mark
There's been a few, yeah.
Mike Dowling
Gabriel, how were you feeling at Dave's crossbar assist?
Gabriel
No, certainly he didn't try to make an assist.
Mike Dowling
Oh, no, no, he meant it.
Gabriel
But I'm happy for Jennings, which is another player that I like a lot. Unfortunately, he's only on loan. So I don't know. It's probably a tough job to get into a League One team, but he looks like a very talented player.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. His manager's been very good. There was a lot of pressure, I believe, to call him back in January. I think we extended in January.
Mike Dowling
I can't remember the exact details, but I think John Jackson was under a lot of pressure. He said, look, he's at Sutton, he's playing, and that's what he needs to be doing. You don't want to bring him into a struggling side and lose this confidence. So I would imagine he would get called back next season.
Mike Dowling
You can ask.
Gabriel
Yeah, Wimbledon, it's an interesting team. They looked at the beginning that they're in the way for a playoff fight, and then they looked that they are going to get in the relegation fight. Now they seem to have gotten into mid-table misery, which is fine for their level.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, we'll be happy with that. But Gabriel, clean sheet. We've already said that Wilson created some, but no real sustained pressure. Was this the Sutton performance that we have been looking for all the way?
Mike Dowling
Nice clean sheet, no major mistakes, goal threats. Is this the kind of performance we're going to expect from now on? Is this the bar?
Gabriel
Definitely, yeah. I feel that there is a lot of talent in this team. and we can perform at this level. We need the confidence that is here now and we need some good performances away as well.
Mike Dowling
What about yourself, Mark? Do you feel the goals are better or the clean sheet is better? It's always good to get a clean sheet.
Mark
Early in the season, we were scoring a lot of goals but conceding even more. Then, since about Christmas, we've been scoring far fewer but conceding fewer. There's been a lot of kind of one-nils, one-alls. But now we seem to be finding a net a bit more.
Mark
So, that's obviously encouraging. I think it's probably worth pointing out that Wilson weren't a great side yesterday. I mean, a lot of the sides we're still due to face will be better than Wilson's stronger opposition. And of course, a lot of those games were away from home as well.
Mark
So there's still some tough challenges ahead. We're by no means home and dry yet. And we need to get some more wins. And you can come on to talk about the next game against Yeovil.
Mark
But that's a game I think we should be looking to win as well.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, there was just one more on specifically on the Wilson game, but I think it was a bit on the workings of the the crowd. There was a really good atmosphere yesterday and they kind of really did help to lift the intensity. Did you did you feel that? Because obviously, We're sort of more used to, oh, well done, and fairly quiet, sedate atmosphere at Gander Green Lane.
Mike Dowling
But did you sort of feel the intensity of especially the young ones behind the goal?
Mark
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a little bit of a derby atmosphere against both Woking and Wheelston. You don't get quite as that same sense when they're playing, you know, Brackley or Braintree. And the crowds were quite big, again, in both those games, about two and a half thousand, I think, in each of them, above average. So that obviously makes for a somewhat better atmosphere.
Mark
But, you know, I think that win against Woking, against the odds, as it seemed, has improved the vibe, the mood around the ground. And I think that was reflected in the atmosphere at yesterday's game.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. And Gabriel, what did you think of the crowd?
Gabriel
I think the crowd is ready to be there, to be enthusiastic. It just needs to have some victories and not disappointments as it happened for so much time in the past two or even three years actually.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, it's a big question. It kind of comes up again and again. Is it the job of the crowd to get the players going or the players to get the crowd going? It's both.
Gabriel
It's very hard to get over as a fan. Okay, you have the hardcore fans that go to away games that are used to even worse times and so on, but they are trying to attract new fans, they are giving away tickets to schools. they're trying to attract new people, and for them, if you don't see a victory, it's different. You need to go home happy that you had the victory.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I mean, saying that, actually, yesterday I saw one of the youngsters that had been kind of given free tickets when we were in the EFL, and he's much more grown up now. I don't know how old he is now, but he's obviously a few years old and he's still coming on his own with his friends. And so we've got this core of youngsters who enjoy coming for just coming. They obviously haven't seen title runs or charges.
Mike Dowling
They've seen lots of losses. But yeah, the enthusiasm will go eventually if they can't see some wins. Now, we've won a few games now, again, the Green Lane. Gabriel, what do we need to do to turn that into wins away from home?
Mike Dowling
Do we need to tighten up that defense and just be really, really stingy? Or should we go for that attacking early starts?
Gabriel
Yeah, this is a good question. You need to have them both. It says defense wins you races both for the title or in relegation battles. So it is very important to be organized.
Gabriel
This was the big team from 40 years ago. It was best at being very organized and being very hard to score against at a better level. in the league too. Also, we have a lot of quality in the offense and we have to put this to work for us.
Gabriel
There's such good players that there were some beautiful moments. The goal against Braintree, I'm still stuck with the Braintree game because if we would have lost that, we would have been probably, all that happened after wouldn't have happened. On the other hand, we scored in a 90 plus 4 and then we got three great chances to make it 2-1 and we left the stadium frustrated that it wasn't 2-1 for us.
Mike Dowling
Brandon slipping is always going to live in my memory. Poor man. His legs couldn't keep up with what his body was doing. What about yourself, Mark?
Mike Dowling
What do you say? Do you feel like we need to concentrate on defence or that balanced approach?
Mark
I think it depends on the game. I mean, Yeovil, who are our next opponents, obviously away, they're not in great form at the moment. I think they're second bottom of the form table, above Wheelston, as it happens. They lost yesterday.
Mark
I think they've lost the last two. So I think we need to take the game to them. I think we need to be on the front foot against them. on Wednesday.
Mark
So, we've got an extra day's recovery. It's not Tuesday, it's Wednesday. So, a decent amount of recovery time. But then we've got another two games within a space of seven days.
Mark
So, then probably need to be some squad rotation. And at least one of those other two away games, Halifax and Hartlepool. Perhaps Hartlepool more than Halifax. I think we need to be more defensive I mean, if you come away from Hartlepool with a point, I think we'll be quite satisfied.
Mark
The Halifax game is somewhere between the two. Halifax are like Hartlepool on the kind of edge of the playoffs, just outside the playoffs. But their recent form's not been great. I mean, they lost to Gateshead in the week, and they got defunct at York.
Mark
Perhaps that's not a surprise, but they've lost their last two. So, you know, maybe we could get a good result up there. But it's a case of, I think, looking at each game as separate from the others, rather than trying to have a common approach to all three.
Mike Dowling
We've just gone above, I think they were above us on Saturday and we've gone above them. Madly, I've just looked at the table and if everything went our way on Wednesday or Tuesday, Wednesday, we could be up to something like 14th, 15th. Which is insane, really. But one thing that we mentioned earlier, dive a bit more into is the discipline and the composure.
Mike Dowling
Now, I love joking around everything but Lewis got booked yesterday and he said to me that's his ninth of the season and we are, as we said, we are kind of top of this disciplinary league or bottom of that disciplinary league, I don't know how they word it. Are you happy with the edge? Do you think the yellow cards have been fair? Do you think referees might go, oh look, sat on the dirtiest team and they pull out their cards a bit quicker than they would for other teams?
Mark
Yeah, I mean, refs do talk to each other and I think if a team has got a large number of cards, yellow, red, both, during the season. That is known, and it's possible that it does subconsciously affect refs. There may be some unconscious bias going on. I mean, we talked about the yellow card for the junior yesterday.
Mark
In, I think it was the previous game, there was quite a nasty off-the-ball foul on Luis Simpa.
Mike Dowling
Yeah.
Mark
Some people felt it should have been a red card, and I've just shown a yellow. So, you know, I think it's possible that there is a little bit of a sense that we pick up cards more easily than some other sides. I mean, Lewis got booked for diving. I mean, it looked to me like a foul, but the referee was in a better position than I was, and he knows the laws of the game better than I do.
Mark
So I'm not necessarily saying he got the call wrong there. But, you know, if Lewis knows he's on, he would have been eight yellow cards at that point. You know, why would he dive and risk getting a ninth yellow, which obviously is what happened. I mean, Chris has talked about that edge.
Mark
He talked about it in relation to Charlie Bell saying, you know, he wants his players to have that edge, to have that aggressive bite. And if that means from time to time one of them gets the yellow or even the red card, he accepts that because it's part of the way they play. And he'd rather that they went in a kind of full-blooded way rather than back off and chicken out of challenges. It's a question of just getting the balance right.
Mark
You don't want to go too far. I think most of the records we've had, if not all of them, haven't been for malicious challenges. They've just been overzealous or badly timed challenges. I don't think we're a particularly dirty side, but you can't ignore the fact that we have got a record number of cards this season, and I think it was similar last season as well.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I mean, Gabriel, I don't know about you, but I think we get an awful lot of cards aggressive tackles for other things. What's your take on the disciplinary side of it?
Gabriel
Yeah, I also feel that sometimes the referees have been quite harsh on us and not that harsh on the opposition. So I cannot say they have an agenda against us or something like that, but when you get this you know, the reputation that you are the team that takes easy red cards. Maybe they are tempted to give red cards.
Mike Dowling
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think someone pointed out yesterday, even if we didn't get another yellow card for the rest of the season, we're probably going to end up top or bottom of that table, whatever your viewpoint is. But let's briefly talk about Yovo.
Mike Dowling
Gabriel, what's your thoughts on what we need to do to win the game and an early prediction for how that game is going to go?
Gabriel
To want it as much as we wanted in the last few games, the last three games. And to have also a bit of luck, you know, that's very important.
Mike Dowling
What about prediction?
Gabriel
Prediction? That's tough. Maybe we get another win. Yeah, maybe we win 2-1.
Mike Dowling
Okay, and Mark, what do you think we need to do at Yeovil to get that?
Mark
I think we just need to try and replicate what we did on yesterday's game. I think Yeovil, without wishing to sink too deeply into cliche territory, are kind of there for the taking. And I think if we adopt the same attitude that we did against Woking and Winston, then we've got a very good chance. Incidentally, if Yeovil do win on Wednesday, they'll do the double over us.
Mark
I missed a game at our place back in, it was the end of September, I think I was up in Shetland, but I gather, you know, we lost 2-1. I think they've got a penalty that won the game for them. So, yeah, I think we need to go for it against Yeovil. I should be down there.
Mark
I don't know how many of us will be there, but I've booked a hotel down there for the night. So, I shall be in the crowd or the maybe thinly populated away section on a Wednesday night and cheering the boys on.
Mike Dowling
Yeah, well, I'm going to go with a scrappy 1-0 win. I'm going to go for 2-1. 2-1 as well. Yeah, I'm going to go 1-0.
Mike Dowling
I think that we're just going to try and keep it tight and then late on, and I'm going to say Nadas is going to come on and score late on for a long goal kick, and he's going to run through from midfield. Sorry, very quickly before we finish up, how are you feeling about the, I know Chris, it was a short pass, but how are you feeling in general about the more mixing it up the last few games, Mark?
Mark
Yeah, I mean there seemed to be a lot less passing around at the back in yesterday's game and I think most of us felt that was a positive development. despite Chris's attempt to defend that way of playing in an earlier interview. So, yeah, getting the ball forward, you know, seemed to work well. I mean, it wasn't just long balls forward, it was playing the ball out to the wings and players running with it into the opposition half.
Mark
I mean, we did lose the ball a few times, that was noted, but, yeah, generally we were on the front foot and getting the ball into their half quickly and that seemed to help us
Mike Dowling
Yeah, I mean it's definitely more mixed. I know they were doing short, but that just keeps the opposition on their toes a little bit. If you're always going to go short or always going to go long, they can't plan for that. What about yourself, Gabriel?
Mike Dowling
Did you notice it? Did you feel that they were mixing it up more?
Gabriel
Yeah, and I feel it's a good thing. We should balance. Of course, it's modern football. You want to build up from the from the keeper, but you should balance it and try to not give away easy goals which take the team down.
Gabriel
I seem to remember that Leicester, not last year but three years ago, basically committed suicide by trying to build up from the keeper and losing a lot of balls and being scored a lot from this situation. You have to
Mike Dowling
mix you have to to balance if nothing else just to not make it easy for the opposition to know what we're going to do because i think i can't remember who it was When John Meaney was with us, he said, watch it at York. All they do is a really short goal kick, and we know to press them. We know straight away, get the strikers onto them. So if you're doing it all the time, people work it out very quickly.
Mike Dowling
Same as when we were in EFL on the mat, everyone knew we were going to make what substitutes we were going to make at what time. So we've got to mix it up. But thank you very much, gents. We're going to wrap up this episode of Sutton Podcast.
Mike Dowling
As always, we appreciate your attention and feedback. Follow, like, share, do all the normal things at Sutton Podcast on all socials. Like, subscribe, thumbs up on YouTube. A big thank you to our sponsors Lucky Star Gin.
Mike Dowling
Very big thank you to my guests. We've got Mark and Gabrielle. And thanks to you for listening as well. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Sutton Podcast.
Mike Dowling
Take care and we'll see you soon.
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