How many games this season left us thinking, “We should’ve had that one”?
Mike Dowling
00:14 - 00:57
Excellent. Okay, so... Hello and welcome to another episode of Sutton United Talk Time on podcast. It's the Sutton Podcast, an association with Lucky Star Gin. I'm your host, Mike, and joining me today, we have a new boy getting a run out at the end of the season, Carl, and we have an old hand, Johnny. We're going to. briefly chat about the Woking match and we're going to look forward to a nice restful summer. There is another game I want to talk about but I don't want Jonny to disconnect just yet. We love hearing from you, we'd love you joining the conversations, stay connected, share, like, all the other bits and pieces on social media, outside the podcast and thank you to everyone who does that already, that is brilliant.
Mike Dowling
00:58 - 01:20
Um, Carl, we'll start with you, the debut boy. Now we've had Will and Joe come on the show and move on and do some comms on this UFC TV, but you've done the opposite route. You've done the comms and then you come onto the podcast. Um, can you introduce yourself and let everyone know about your Sutton United story?
Carl
01:22 - 02:07
So. Certain story really started with a mate. A mate had some season tickets through a client of his, asked if, you know, what's that group if the guys wanted to come down and have a game every now and again. So I did. And that was in the first season of the EFL. and having a look back. Got my season ticket for the following season, and then the season after that, and the season just gone. So, yeah, I've enjoyed coming, enjoyed bringing the daughters. Evelyn was first, she loved it, interaction with the players.
Mike Dowling
02:10 - 02:29
Oh, you're just fading out, also your camera's gone off. So I'm going to come on to Johnny. Maybe you want to turn your camera off on again, see if we can get you back again. Not sure what happened there, but while you're sorting that out, Johnny, welcome back. All been a bit quiet for you since you were last on, isn't it?
Johnnie
02:30 - 02:44
Yeah, it was only about a month ago, wasn't it? Yeah, I'm trying to think. If I was talking that much rubbish after the Maidenhead game, I'd have to sort of keep a low profile. Good to be back on, Mike. Thanks for having me again.
Mike Dowling
02:45 - 02:55
But you have done something. You have released your book. Are we counting the 125th anniversary one?
Johnnie
02:55 - 03:40
Yeah, I'm claiming it. I'm claiming it. So I'm saying four books rather than three. Yeah, so Amateur Hour came out yesterday now, so the date of the Woking game. It's all about watching the FA Vars in lockdown season, which was 2020-21. What else happened in 2020-21 in football? I don't know. It could have been anything. So there's quite a lot of mention of Sutton United in there, which hadn't been the plan. But the club sort of forced my hand by going and winning the league that year. So plenty of sighting in there. There's actually Gander Green Lane on the front cover from an SCR game, back on that 3G pitch before we had to tear it up.
Johnnie
03:40 - 04:17
But yeah, it's kind of like a lockdown diary. I wrote it as I went along. The first few rounds, I remember it was a weird time, but the first few rounds you could go and watch non-elite football. but not elite football. We were elite somehow, but anything lower than the Conference South, I think it was, you were allowed to go and watch. So I couldn't go and watch, in theory couldn't go and watch Sutton United play, but could go and watch Sutton Common Rovers play at the same ground the day after. So all sorts of weird stuff went on.
Johnnie
04:19 - 04:51
Eventually we went into some deeper lockdown. Then I had to start trying to get into games by filming them. I called up Hadley FC, trying to get into their game. I was speaking to the guy on the other end of the phone and ended up talking about Sutton United and he goes, oh, I've watched a lot of Sutton United as well. I'm thinking, why on earth is the club secretary of Hadley watching Sutton United? It was Matt Gray's brother. It was the secretary of Hadley and I had no idea. I was just chatting on the phone to him for 10-15 minutes before he was.
Johnnie
04:53 - 05:33
Small world. Yeah, the quarters and the semis, I think I ended up watching over a fence to try and get in and then got into Wembley. I think they sold a thousand tickets to the VARS finalists, even though you can get 90,000 people in there. So all sorts of weird memories. It's quite interesting to look back on what football was like then. Obviously it has the nice ending of how we went and did something that I think probably got a lot of people through what was a tough time. Certainly a massive help to myself, just gave me something to look forward to every week when there wasn't a lot else going on to see if we could go and win that title.
Johnnie
05:33 - 05:50
And I never believed we would until we did, just because it didn't feel right, Sutton being a League Two team at the time. Yeah, so sort of good and bad memories really of that time. Difficult periods, but I think Sutton was a big help to me throughout it.
Mike Dowling
05:52 - 05:58
it was definitely a weird time watching people you know playing on the little screens and you're like,
Johnnie
05:58 - 05:58
this isn't
Mike Dowling
05:58 - 06:10
right, this is really odd. Well, I got my copy, I got the first sold physical copy, although Dan is claiming that he's turned up, I can't believe that. I've got the author
Johnnie
06:10 - 06:10
signing
Mike Dowling
06:10 - 06:21
it saying I was the first, so yeah, can't be better than that. I'm very much looking forward to reading that. Um, Kyle seems to have disappeared. I don't know if he's going to try back again, but you're on your own for the minute. Um,
Johnnie
06:21 - 06:23
no pressure. So
Mike Dowling
06:26 - 07:06
we had the awards dinner the other night, um, and the, well, there was spread out a few, a few players. I mean, Finlay won the young player of the year, which is probably a shoe-in, I would imagine. But the players player, which is quite a big one. Well, as a fan, you kind of think, well, we've got our own favorites, but to hear which player, which they pick out, it was Charlie Lake in last year, which was shocking because he was only here in January. Then the player of the year, I don't know who that's chosen by, but it was joint with Lewis Simper and Jack Sims.
Mike Dowling
07:07 - 07:10
and I got the trophy, because they both left without
Johnnie
07:10 - 07:10
it,
Mike Dowling
07:10 - 07:38
so I took it home. I was planning all sorts of wonderful, weird things with it, and it weighs a ton. It's like, I'm not doing it now, I'll just give it back. And I got to present, for some bizarre reason, the goal of the season to Lewis Simpard, so thank you, Claire, for picking me. And Will, although not on the awards night, he won yesterday the Supporters' Parody Year, so it was kind of... three of the main players that you would, well, four of the main players you would have thought have got something, have all got it.
Mike Dowling
07:39 - 08:20
A couple of bits, the fans match is, I'm losing my days, I don't even know what day it is, not this Sunday, next Sunday, the 18th. Yeah, that's the one. And Dundee's match is the week after, 25th. Just before coming on here, because we're recording on Tuesday, the retained list has come out. Can't believe people are already complaining going, well, that's not the retained list. That's the people who are leaving us, even though the words say all other players are retained. But what did you, what are your early thoughts? We're going to discuss this probably a bit more detailed next week at the end of the season thing, but what are your early thoughts with Josh, Arnie, Jacko, Matt and Sam leaving us as our players?
Johnnie
08:21 - 08:53
Yeah, I wasn't surprised purely because I'm assuming, I don't know the ins and outs, but I'm assuming they'd have still been on effectively League 2 contracts on League 2 wages. So I would imagine they would have probably been the highest earners or around the highest earners in the team. I think in Josh's, Josh Coley's case, he'll probably have his sights on getting back into the football league. So I think it's kind of, we might not have been able to stretch the wage or didn't want to stretch the wage. He probably saw himself playing higher anyway, so kind of mutually beneficial if you like.
Johnnie
08:54 - 09:31
I guess Steve Arnold becoming second choice, we wouldn't be able to then justify that wage for a second choice keeper. Ryan Jackson, Yeah, I think he was probably the one of the lot that I thought we might have kept him. But again, I think just because of the way we've kind of restructured, if you like, after coming down, not too surprised by it. Wish them all the best at the next club. They've all done very well, put a shift in last season and this season. I wasn't particularly surprised. I didn't realise we had so many players on the contracts, actually.
Johnnie
09:31 - 09:33
That's the one thing I was surprised at.
Mike Dowling
09:33 - 09:47
Yeah. I mean, personally, those three names, Jaco, great, every time I've ever spoken to him, I've not actually interviewed him, but every time I've ever spoke to him, I think he had a great big shock when he had his eye injury, and everyone was
Johnnie
09:47 - 09:47
going,
Mike Dowling
09:47 - 09:54
oh, come back soon, come back soon. And I sort of said, oh, how's it going? He was like, oh, yeah, I'll be back soon. I was like, I don't give a shit. whether you're back soon or not, I want you to get
Johnnie
09:54 - 09:54
your
Mike Dowling
09:54 - 10:31
eyesight sorted. It falls like a little while. Arnie, again, every time I spoke to him, superstar. And Josh has been amazing because obviously he's had a very open interview on the vodcast and I've chatted to him a couple of times in the hospitality. Um, I was surprised we didn't keep at least one of Matt and Sam. Um, I know we had four keepers last year. It was a bit much, but they, they have been bigging them up all season. Um, so I was a bit surprised we didn't keep one of them, but it may be that Steve's being a dad and said, no, no, I want, I want them to go and play elsewhere and we're stifling their growth.
Mike Dowling
10:31 - 11:06
So you never know. And then the lone players, Finn, Nadders, Kian and Bez, all going back to their parent clubs, although three of those are out of contract, so who knows? I would imagine some of them see themselves as League Two as well, but hopefully they will find good clubs and, as you said, wish them all well. You mentioned just as we started that Junius just signed a new two-year contract and you also mentioned the last time you were on you had something to say about this. So how do you feel about the contract?
Johnnie
11:06 - 11:35
Yeah, it's come at the right time to justify what I was saying, wasn't it? Yeah, I think, say, like, we've got a lot of good young players starting to get minutes, a few played for the first team, a few that have gone out on loan. So, yeah, I think it's definitely a good thing to your contracts as well, right? If Junior's been out on loan, Walton and Hirsch in the Southern Prem, it's a good standard of football for someone who's 17 years old to be playing. I know they've got a very young team there, they're doing things the right way.
Johnnie
11:36 - 12:07
And, yeah, if he's had a good season there, and I know they made it into the playoffs, he must be doing something right. So, yeah, it's exciting. It's exciting for him, exciting for the club. I would imagine it will probably be another loan spell the season coming, so maybe a Conference South team, the same thing Jack Taylor did. And then see if he can make the step up after that, whether it be mid-season or another season. He's got loads of time. He's 17, 18 years old, something like that. Um, so, yeah, it's, it's really good news.
Johnnie
12:07 - 12:14
It shows that the academy system we've got is working. Um, and we'll, yeah, we'll keep seeing the benefits of that for years to come, hopefully now.
Mike Dowling
12:16 - 12:29
Absolutely. We'll come back to that in a second, but, um, Carl's back, hopefully. Um, we can, we've just done a chat about the retained list. Did you have anything to say about the players going? Um,
Carl
12:32 - 13:05
Expected, I think, the older generation. Obviously, the family is sad about Josh, being that he's been an influential part of my kid's journey at Sutton. Obviously, I've got a good relationship with him and his better half and his two little ones, so he'll be missed by the family. But again, Steve, I think, wants to freshen it up and It's not a shock, if I'm honest with you.
Mike Dowling
13:06 - 13:29
Yeah, we were saying it's potentially, for those three in particular, it's potentially a wage issue where they're probably on the higher end of the wages because they're all from League Two. So it's possibly that. We may have wanted to keep them, but we may not be able to offer them as much as they wanted. And it's better for both sides to just go, okay, we'll, we'll just walk away now. But
Carl
13:29 - 13:30
yeah,
Mike Dowling
13:30 - 13:34
the girls were devastated with Buttes last year and now Josh. Yeah,
Carl
13:34 - 13:36
it was, it was Kobe Rhoda first year.
Mike Dowling
13:37 - 13:37
Yeah,
Carl
13:37 - 13:43
yeah. Then Buttes last year and Eastie and now Josh. Make sure they don't
Mike Dowling
13:43 - 13:44
pick a favourite player
Carl
13:44 - 13:53
this year, yeah? I've said to them in their band, no more favourite players, no more names on the back of their shirt, no nothing. No more
Mike Dowling
13:53 - 14:31
at all. With what you're saying, Jonny, about the academy side, I think, again, I don't know this for certain, but I think we're protected for two years at the academy status, but I'm not sure what happens on year three, whether there's a partial protection, because obviously I know some clubs, like Oldham, had got rid of the academy because you put all the money developing players and anyone could just come in with absolutely no compensation. So, hopefully, we will push on and get that promotion this year, just to say that, because it is absolutely working and it's brilliant.
Mike Dowling
14:32 - 15:09
A couple of really just podcasty things. Lots and lots of nice feedback on the Dundo interviews. Lots of people saying they really enjoyed the last one, which was the different people in Dundo's life, and they were going really, really overboard on it, and I kind of was like, I only spoke about seven words in that. I'm taking this a little bit personally, but OK. And I'm planning for the summer. So if anyone has any ideas who they'd like to hear from within the club, let me know, and I'll try and get them on. And if there's any segments that you like, dislike, or that you can suggest, let me know, and I'll see what I can tie in.
Mike Dowling
15:12 - 15:35
Right, so Johnny, I've got you, and I'm going to jump on this with you. The National League Cup, we did reach the final. It did get won by an under-21 side. I know you were against it, but you weren't telling everyone else to be against it, same as me. I was just like, oh, whatever, it's a competition. But once we got to the final, were you hoping we'd won it or we'd win it or were you still just not?
Johnnie
15:35 - 16:07
I couldn't care less. I'll get myself in trouble, Mike, but I'll be honest. I went to watch a local playoff game near me and said, I'm just not bothered. I can't get interested in development football at all. If one of the teams there is not really there to win it, they're just there for the future. I don't see the point. So yeah, not for me. I get why the club's entered it for the money, right? There's a saying in economics about trading blocks. They're like street gangs. They're bad for everyone. But if there's one in your area, you're probably safer to be part of it than to be against it.
Johnnie
16:07 - 16:35
I think the club's taken that approach to this competition. It's we need the money, fine, whatever. Listen, I don't think the competition should exist. I've been very clear about that. I think the Premier League, it's just blood money from the Premier League to make up for cut replays, but it's also just for their benefit. I mean, you can see how ridiculous the rules are where we're having to substitute Siju off after 30 seconds because we've had to start him with a dislocated shoulder. It's all for their own benefit, not for ours, and I'd like to see it gone.
Johnnie
16:36 - 16:53
So, yeah, no interest from me in the final. Wouldn't have been... Wouldn't have said it was making it a better season if we'd won it. Wasn't upset that we'd lost it. And, yeah, so I get why the club's in it, but I'd rather we... I'd rather the competition just quietly disappeared over the summer. And I think it will.
Mike Dowling
16:53 - 16:57
I'm not sure it will now that an under-21s win it.
Carl
16:58 - 16:58
Karl, what about yourself?
Mike Dowling
16:59 - 17:00
How did you feel about
Carl
17:02 - 17:51
Just another Tuesday night out, really, without the kids. But no, I've got sort of similar thoughts with Johnny. It was a nothing competition. Would it have been nice for it to have been the first team to win it? Yeah, of course it would have been. But I listen to Talk Sport regularly, and there's Charlie Baker, who's a Talkie United fan, but ranted and raved about it on Wednesday's show last week. I echo what Johnny said about the cup competition replays. It's just another fixture in a very hectic calendar. The Premier League Under-21s have a competition that they've entered, but then on the flip side, you don't really know how good these players are against men until they play men.
Carl
17:51 - 18:19
So I felt that the Leeds game, I went, I felt the Leeds team did very well, a couple of players shone out. I think we signed a West Ham player off the back of the game that we played against them. So it's a good opportunity for them, but I enjoyed the games. I enjoyed another night out watching the football. But I wouldn't be sad if it wasn't here next year.
Mike Dowling
18:23 - 18:57
there were pluses. I was very much as I'd take it or leave it. I wasn't too fussed at all whether I went or not. But the crowd was different because there's a lot of kids. And I know they're giving or doing lots of cheap deals. But chances are those kids are going to love it and get dragged and dragged the parents back. So there's there's there's a possibility there. And I did stupidly say to John Meaney that, well, to be fair, if we're going to do crap in a cup final, we might as well do crap in one that no one really cares about.
Mike Dowling
18:58 - 19:26
And then I spent the next few minutes being lectured about why it would have been important to win, and it doesn't matter the competition, even if it's the Surrey Senior Cup, or the Sussex Cup if he won with Horsham. last year, year before, something like that, and they've now just started winning. He said, winning breeds winning, so it doesn't matter what you win, and yeah, whether people like the competition or not, it was a competition we had a chance of winning, and if we'd won it, it would have been better, because everyone would have felt winning something.
Mike Dowling
19:27 - 19:31
So yeah, he smacked me down a little bit, but the club's made money from it, as you said, Johnny, so.
Carl
19:32 - 19:55
We could say that about La Pavadonzo, couldn't you, Mike, really? You know, it was a final that was only based on the lower league teams. They got to the final and it was a final experience. It would have been nice to win it. Of course, it would have been. But again, same with the National League Cup. It's a final. You've got to be able to take the pressure and the nerves into a game and win it.
Mike Dowling
19:56 - 20:10
Exactly. I mean, I think we, or some of us, put up more with the Papa Johns because we'd never known the competition in any other format. So it's like, okay, well, this is what it is. I know some people didn't, Johnny, calm down.
Johnnie
20:11 - 20:11
But
Mike Dowling
20:12 - 20:42
this one, we'll see what happens. But yeah, for a competition to not quite have the format sorted out a week before kickoff, and not a final sorted out until just a bit after the semi-finals. And we were there on the Thursday before, weren't we, Carl? And they'd mentioned that they were told the trophy was on the way, but no one had any sight of what the trophy looked like. And it's like, this is ridiculous. They're just making this up as they go along. And it wasn't even that good that they were making up as they go along.
Mike Dowling
20:42 - 21:04
It's just lovely. But anyway, we'll see what happens. So yesterday, how did you feel? Johnny, did the match basically sum up the season of lots of promise, missed chances and a solid but unspectacular but respectable result?
Johnnie
21:05 - 21:32
Yeah, I think it was a bit of the season in sort of different parts of the game, really. I mean, at the first 15-20 minutes, we were terrible. And it was like, we've had the odd game this season, I think, Dagenham away, Halifax at home and Spennymoor, to be honest, where it's just been like, what on earth are we doing? And the first 15-20 minutes of the game yesterday, we could have been 3-4, nil down, game over. The rest of the game, I thought we played pretty well. The rest of the game was to miss chances.
Johnnie
21:34 - 21:58
Yeah, just not quite getting over the line. I think we win that game if we don't start like we did because we were largely in control of it. So yeah, there was a lot of promise, a sort of tendency to self-destruct for short spells and yeah, ultimately average result. which, yeah, is probably the season in a nutshell.
Mike Dowling
21:59 - 22:00
Yeah. Karl, what do you think?
Johnnie
22:01 - 22:02
Yeah, totally agree.
Carl
22:06 - 22:39
The back back line didn't look troubled after about 15, 20 minutes in, really, I think, after the slow start, which is it's been the case for many games. The game, I can't remember who the opponent was, but we gave a penalty away within the first minute. You can count on more than one hand how many goals you've conceded in the first 10 minutes. But then once the boys have settled down and got a grip of the game, there was only going to be one winner. But, you know, Lewis had about three or four pop shots from outside the area which were comfortably saved.
Carl
22:40 - 23:10
I felt the goal came from a bit of bravery from Harry Ransom to get the header back across. But again, largely it was a dead rubber game. And towards the ends, you know, when the final whistle went, you saw them all flop to the floor as if to say, thank God the season's over. And it was, you know, Woking, apart from us getting into the top half of the table, which Steve joked about in the Ambers bar afterwards, you know, finishing in the top half, it was it was an end of season classic.
Mike Dowling
23:12 - 23:17
I mean, I thought it was it was a little bit more to it, because I think they could have finished above us if they'd
Carl
23:17 - 23:18
won. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Dowling
23:18 - 23:20
So they would have been top off and we wouldn't. So
Johnnie
23:20 - 23:20
there was
Mike Dowling
23:20 - 23:47
that little bit of local pride. But Carl, Chances not taken. How? I mean, we've got a 20-goal season player. How are we not taking these chances? Why? What needs to happen? I mean, there was one, I can't remember who you had the shot. There was someone that got the ball on the edge of the area. I think it might have been Vaz. And everyone's like, shoot! And he'd just done this real tame effort. It was like, no, that's a back pass.
Carl
23:48 - 23:51
It was a cross. It was a cross, essentially, to no one.
Mike Dowling
23:52 - 23:58
How do we... convert some of these chances? Bearing in mind, the manager's a Premier League striker and none of us
Carl
23:59 - 24:41
are. You've got to strike while the iron's hot. And I think, you know, like you say, you've got a 20-gold season striker in Will Davies, whose header in the first half was very, very tame. He jumped far too early. He didn't end up catching practice for the keeper. And I think confidence and just a bit of momentum, he sticks that in the back of the net. And I think it's just about taking the chances with a little bit of luck. How many goals have we conceded this year where someone's had a pop shot and it's taken a flexion or a goalmouth scramble and Simo's on the floor and it pops past him?
Carl
24:42 - 25:15
Even the goal, if you think I can't remember how it got in the air, but it took a backspin and rather than Woody clearing it, it spins away from him and allows the striker to then tap it into an empty net really. So I think it's a lot of luck, but persistency, you know, just taking the pot shot like Vaz, have a go it will go anywhere you know if it hits someone go out for a corner create another shot chance or make the keeper save make the keeper make a save and then and then back it up we haven't done that at all this year
Mike Dowling
25:17 - 25:40
I think Dennis Bergkamp said when he first came over, he was like, why are people oohing when you hit the crossbar? That's off target because you've got to make the keeper do something. Johnny, you're a goalkeeper. Do you like these shots from distance or are you happy to watch them come into your arms? How do you think we should be doing better with these chances?
Johnnie
25:41 - 26:07
Yeah, I think quite a lot of the time, to speak for myself, as a goalkeeper, you're quite happy to see people pass off the opportunity to shoot. If someone hits it from, if Lewis Simper hits it from the edge of the box and it goes, it's anywhere near the top corner with a bit of power, it's going in. National League goalkeepers aren't, you know, well beaters. So I think we've started to get the hang of that a little bit more recently, or Lewis Simper's started to get the hang of that a little bit more recently.
Johnnie
26:08 - 26:42
The goal, I think Steve Morrison said it after the Oval game, to hit it before the keeper's set. And that's, as a keeper, that's what you don't want attacking player to do. Once you've got time to get set and get ready to face a shot, you've got a much better chance of saving it. And I actually think a lot of the time with with one-on-ones, the longer the striker takes, the easier it is for the keeper. So I think, yeah, hit it earlier. I think maybe slight tendency to overplay at times. We're trying to score the perfect goal and it's not quite coming off.
Johnnie
26:43 - 27:12
But I think we're getting there. You see, like, I mean, say Lewis Simp had a couple of shots. The chance we had where we had De Silva put the rebound against the post and then Davis couldn't quite turn a rebound. And again, it's just Lewis Simpa, touch from a thrown shot. It's difficult from that sort of range just outside the box. It's really difficult for the keeper to do much. I mean, it was more or less straight at him and it was still a good save just because of the power on it. So, yeah, I agree with Carl.
Johnnie
27:12 - 27:17
I think it's, yeah, if you've got someone with that quality in your midfield, why not have a go?
Mike Dowling
27:18 - 27:28
Well, you both kind of hinted at it. I mean, Josh, when I spoke to him at the start of the season, and he alluded to it in his goodbye message, was it took a while for me to get
Johnnie
27:28 - 27:28
going.
Mike Dowling
27:29 - 28:00
And he did say that when you're not fully confident, you're going to always pass it off to someone else because you're like, I don't want everyone getting on my back. We are a fairly friendly crowd, but do we have a tendency when someone shoots and it goes horribly wrong and therefore almost getting on their backs? I mean, it's quite a natural reaction if someone takes a shot. And it doesn't go in or it does, it goes horribly wide, you're going to be frustrated. There's no chance of us all going, oh, well done, good for trying, good for trying.
Mike Dowling
28:01 - 28:03
But is there more we could do? Johnny, first of all, will you?
Johnnie
28:04 - 28:44
I think any crowds like that. I don't think it's a specific certain thing or anything. There's also a natural frustration if we go backwards. People go forwards, go forwards and a lot of the time it's actually not really a good idea. You're better off rebuilding from the back. People get frustrated at anything. Yeah, people are going to be frustrated at a long shot, but if it goes well over the bar, but if you're Louis Simpa and you've got a bit of credit in the bank, then I think you can't really, yeah. A lot of the time, I always think if the crowd are urging a player to shoot and he has a shot, And it's your own fault, really.
Johnnie
28:45 - 28:57
I can't really complain about it. So, yeah, I don't, I don't think it's a natural reaction, isn't it? Someone has a shot off target and you're like, oh, it's not a conscious criticism. It's just,
Mike Dowling
28:57 - 29:06
yeah. You can see how well some players might just feel like, I'm going to, I'm going to give this to someone else to do it because I don't want to mess this up.
Carl
29:07 - 29:49
Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, when I was playing all that many years ago, I classed myself as sort of an attacking midfielder. My job was to create chances. Now, whether that's a pot shot from outside the box, 20, 25 yards, or to try and squeeze one through. But I agree with Johnny that there's too much of a tendency to play the perfect or score the perfect goal. My biggest frustration, especially with the current crop of players is like Nana or even Josh, Dylan, when they're getting into those attacking areas, they're trying to beat the man one too many times, they'll fall over, they'll lose the ball.
Carl
29:49 - 30:20
Just get the ball in the box. you know, whether it's along the floor or a little chip, just get it into the box, make the defenders and the goalkeeper have to do something, because that's, again, Johnny said it earlier, you know, it's National League, you know, they're not well-beaten, they're not the Virgil van Dijk or your Edersons. They're going to make a mistake, especially the Eves' fleet goal, where Lewis just had a pop shot. I felt the keeper should have done a lot better than that. It was so far out, but The keeper wasn't set.
Carl
30:21 - 30:48
Didn't get anywhere near it in the end. So I do get the vibe sometimes that when they do hit the ball and it goes into row Z essentially, there is a groan and a moan and stuff. But that's just disappointment because the crowd expect better from someone like Lewis or Nadder's will. So I think that they should take that as a positive rather than a negative.
Mike Dowling
30:49 - 30:51
Yeah, true. Yeah, if it's silent and
Carl
30:51 - 30:51
no one says a word,
Mike Dowling
30:51 - 31:26
then you can feel wow. But I still don't know what game you're talking about when you talk about this Ebbsfleet game. Never happened. In the bag. It's in the bag. Jack Skull. I think it kind of had elements of what you're both saying about the ball going backwards, because it was a recycled corner almost, and Nadas got the cross in, Harry flicked it on, let's say, headed it on, and we saw Jack Bodham celebrating a goal. He didn't do that against Man United because he was so frustrated with how he played. But talk us through your thoughts on the goal, Carl.
Carl
31:28 - 32:09
Yeah, like I said earlier, the bravery from Harry to get the ball knocked on, it took a knock to the side of the head afterwards and took his time. But, you know, getting that ball in a box, my biggest it about corners is when they take it short you've got all the big guys that go up there you know they've got the ball in the box this time it was cleared now it's got it in the first thing was to get it back in the box what a big man was still still in there so um it's uh Definitely one you'll take, you know, it was a good, good header back across the goal and Jack was in the right place at the right time and got his head into the corner.
Carl
32:09 - 32:20
So it was a goal that we don't see that often for Sutton because they tend not to get that luck where it gets recycled, but definitely a goal you'll take.
Mike Dowling
32:21 - 32:26
Yeah. Johnny? You're on mute, mate.
Johnnie
32:28 - 32:58
Good point. Yes, it's like Kyle says, it shows what happens when you get the ball in the box. I agree on the short corners. I think short corners can work if we have an idea of what we want to do with them and we take them quickly and we don't seem to do either of those things. Now it's been frustrating because all season, not really got any better. I don't think we scored enough headed goals this season, just off the top of my head. I can't think of too many. So it's something to work on.
Johnnie
32:58 - 33:33
And yeah, You've got your centre backs up, they're going to win headers. Just a flick on, a deflection in the box, it might drop for someone, it fell for Jack was a good header. Yeah, there you go out of nothing. Back to 1-1. So yeah, hopefully next season. I mean, I think of the corners we have scored this season, I think we've probably scored more from just putting it in the box. The one that comes to mind is Will Davis at York. I can think of one short corner that we scored at Hartlepool away, which was basically just playing it to Lewis Simper and him having a shot from the edge of the box.
Johnnie
33:34 - 33:49
It wasn't a sort of well-worked routine. It was just we took it quickly when they weren't ready. I think fewer short corners, they can work from time to time. Get the ball in the box and you never know what might happen. in
Mike Dowling
33:49 - 34:18
the mixer. It was great to see some of the old boys, you got, Aidan was around yesterday, he had a quick hello, Paul Buttes was stuck for about an hour or two while he was trying to get a coffee and everyone just kept coming up having a chat with him and having photos and stuff. Also I'm not sure how happy he was really to be called up on stage to do the Strike as a Key at the end of season event for our own players, he was like No, I shouldn't be here. Wasn't so happy to see Chin.
Mike Dowling
34:20 - 34:47
That wasn't so great for Chinacoli to come back and play so well against us. But, and also Tyler, I think he's ended up with stitches. And it is for, because of some horrendous tackle towards at the end. But not going to live long in the memory, but 3,000, almost 300 there. That shows support is still there, Johnny. What do you think? Does that show we've got a good grounding for next year?
Johnnie
34:48 - 35:20
Yeah, I think we've got a good base. Um, it's a very young, um, like support group as well, which we've never really had before. Um, which is promising that you're, you're fans of the future. Um, if you look at, especially looking at our crowds, um, the season before we went to like lockdown pre lockdown season, it's like half of what we're getting now, pretty much just over half of what we're getting now. So it's, it's promising given that we've been not really having a realistic chance of making the playoffs for a while now. Crowds have held up.
Johnnie
35:20 - 35:55
It's good. It's really good. Hopefully it stays like that next season. I mean, if we start next season well and we're pushing towards the top, I think we'll actually get bigger crowds than we're getting now. It's a kind of trend across the whole of non-league football and we're doing all the right things, I think, to try and maintain that with I hate the National League Cup. The free tickets to school kids is a really good idea. At least we're doing well out of it. If we're in it, we might as well do it properly and we are.
Johnnie
35:56 - 36:19
It's promising. Hopefully, if the crowds stay up, you keep an atmosphere. players want to come to a club where things feel positive, where things are moving forward. I think we've got that. It's ready. And if we can just start next season well, I think it will all come together and it'll be a really positive, lively place to be.
Mike Dowling
36:20 - 36:34
Yeah, I mean, Carl, you obviously came down anyway, but it was kind of the girls that got you hooked coming down when they're loving it and they put their great hair bows and bands in. That's
Carl
36:34 - 36:34
how I
Mike Dowling
36:34 - 36:35
introduced myself to Carl and Vicky.
Carl
36:37 - 37:16
I don't know if you heard much of my intro but I came down with a friend and then Evelyn wanted to come on a Saturday so I took her down and just purely the fact that she loved it. She gets to run around. There's a family feel around the club. Everyone's so friendly, stewards, representatives, the players, the staff and all that. I think I agree with Johnny in the free tickets for the schools. I think I'm not commercially minded, Mike, but you know, there are other revenues that the club can bring in, you know, rather than just ticket sales.
Carl
37:16 - 37:22
So, if they can get the crowds in through the door, you know, scarves, hats,
Johnnie
37:22 - 37:23
you know,
Carl
37:23 - 38:03
bows, you know, those sorts of things can bring revenue into the club to help them move forward. I think, you know, I've I've seen the quieter nights or the quieter days where not many people turn out. And I've seen it when it's been perhaps, you know, unable to move sometimes. And it's always varied on different Saturdays or Tuesdays or the timings of the games and stuff when international breaks are on or no Premier League is on, etc. I totally agree. It's a good basis. You know, the morale's up. People want to go and see football that's winning.
Carl
38:03 - 38:07
So have a good start to the season and you'll get the crowds in.
Mike Dowling
38:08 - 38:40
Absolutely. So start of the season, I've kind of said, oh, I'd like a little push for the playoffs, which didn't really happen. And I wanted the top 10 finish. Got a top half finish. I didn't realize Morrison had said that, because I said that on my little video as well. So I've been doing it at the same time as him. And a cup final and a quarterfinal, which is the furthest we've gone in the VARs for many, many years, not just the three years we weren't in it. Is it an OK season? Karl, we'll start with you.
Mike Dowling
38:40 - 38:48
This isn't a season review, but short answers. Is it an OK season, a nice base to build on?
Carl
38:50 - 39:22
It's a yes or no answer, Mike, to be honest with you. If you look on the grand scheme of things, I think a 12th place finish when you've literally renewed the whole squad. I know Steve Arnold played a handful of games at the start, but Josh and Ryan Jackson are the only real existing players that played a regular part of the season. So I think a 12th finish The 12th place finish is a reasonable season to have. Three-year projects consolidate, maybe a slight push next year and then a push for promotion in the third season.
Carl
39:22 - 39:37
But if you look at the games that we've played and the games that we've thrown away or not won, you would be disappointed in a 12th place finish, I think. I think with eight games to go, with six points outside the playoff, were very winnable games
Johnnie
39:37 - 39:38
and we
Carl
39:38 - 39:55
just didn't get the results. Eves Fleet being one of them, Hartlepool being another when you're up and you can see silly goals. But overall, I think if you're not going to push for promotion, just finish as high as you possibly can. And I think 12th was probably a fair result over the season.
Mike Dowling
39:56 - 39:56
Yeah.
Carl
39:57 - 39:57
Jonny?
Johnnie
39:58 - 40:32
Yeah, I think it's an OK season, nothing more. I think I would have probably taken it just as a pessimist. A lot of teams, a lot of bigger clubs than us, to be fair, have got relegated from League Two and then gone down again. And then you're in trouble. So we've avoided that fairly comfortably in the end. It's always difficult when you renew more or less the entire team. The disappointment was the FA Trophy because we just didn't turn up for the biggest game of the season against a team. No disrespect to Spain, we got to the final, obviously.
Johnnie
40:33 - 41:04
team in the lead below at home, you probably should be winning that game. And I guess the other concern for me is that we were better in the first half of the season than the second half. And that's looking at points rather than just an opinion. We've got worse as the season's gone on. You kind of expect it to be the other way around with the new team. So I think we've got to address that. I don't know how many new players we'll be able to bring in. But, yeah, say you're 12th, fine, it's OK, I'd take it.
Johnnie
41:04 - 41:12
But just a few, I guess, a few things to iron out before we can look to push on next season as opposed to looking over our shoulder.
Mike Dowling
41:14 - 41:39
That leads to the next question. So apparently some signings are already lined up. I don't have any information I ask not to because I'll say something stupid. But where do you, Johnny, think that we should be looking to strengthen? Or do you feel players that are coming in will just back up what we've already got? Or do you think we need people to come in for the first team and potentially push players out?
Johnnie
41:41 - 42:13
I think we probably need players in every position to some extent. We're going to need a new backup keeper because we've lost like four goalkeepers today. So a new backup keeper, I think defensively probably at least one or two to come in. I think Taylor and Kirk are the first choice centre backs. I think probably a bit of extra cover there. Obviously a right back will be top of the list now. Now Jaco's gone. In midfield, the big loss is Finlay Barbrook, which we knew was going to happen. How do we find a replacement for him?
Johnnie
42:13 - 42:54
I don't know. He's such a good player. So that will be difficult. Cover for Will Davis up front. Have we got that at the minute? I don't know. Maybe Nadasan was that player, but is he still going to be here? So I think definitely players in every position. A sort of balance, I guess, across the whole squad. And then it depends who we lose as well, because I guess you've got some players that are under contract that we might not think part of the plans for next season, realistically, and might they go somewhere else? And then we've probably got a few players where there'll be bigger clubs sniffing around.
Johnnie
42:55 - 43:15
If they leave, we get a fee. So it's not the end of the world, but I think we probably want to keep players like Lewis Simpah, Will Davis, Jack Sims, whatever is being offered. So we'll have to see. A lot will change in the next few weeks, but definitely, yeah, players in every position will have to come in.
Mike Dowling
43:16 - 43:17
I
Carl
43:17 - 44:04
would slightly go against what Johnny said there. I don't think we need players in every position. I think we've got enough defenders to cover the losses. I think that's been the team's biggest downfall this year, is the amount of injuries and absences we've had in the defence. I would concentrate more on the attacking side of things. Obviously, they've only got one keeper now, so that's a given. You need a second goal scorer to come on. to either give Will a rest with 15, 20 minutes to go, or a different spark, or even a partnership. Naz did that at times when they ended up going two at the top.
Carl
44:04 - 44:12
Wingers, you need to replace those that are gone. Jeremy Sivy went in January, they never really replaced him. They got Kane Adam
Johnnie
44:13 - 44:13
on
Carl
44:13 - 44:57
loan when Josh pulled his hamstring, so they didn't really replace him. Matt Rush, gone, he was another option. So, I think they need attacking players. I think our biggest thing, if you look to the league table, I think it was after the overall game, I think, we scored 56 and conceded 56. So, we're not scoring enough when we're conceding that amount. So, yeah, I agree you've got to keep hold of Will Lewis and Jackson's in goal and then build around that core. I agree with the centre-back partnership. You know, Jack Taylor was a big loss when he left, when he got injured and stuff.
Carl
44:57 - 45:06
So, you know, you've got the core just built around that, I think. But you need a squad this league. It's a long, old season. You know,
Johnnie
45:06 - 45:06
we've
Carl
45:06 - 45:19
shown this year the amount of injuries we've had to some key areas. And I think if you've got decent enough backup who's happy to play that backup role, then that'll be a perfect scenario.
Mike Dowling
45:20 - 45:45
Yeah, I mean, it's going to be a squad game. Yeah, it's just, who can we get in? All the players, obviously, we're delighted they were on two years, but that means they're on one year now. So you've got then decisions on if we do get an offer, do we go with that offer, if we're kind of still in the hunt in January and someone comes in for, let's say, Will. Do
Johnnie
45:45 - 45:45
you
Mike Dowling
45:45 - 46:19
think, well, that offer is too big, we've got to take it, because that apparently is going to be the way we're going. We're going to be following the route of Brighton and Brentford, so we're going to develop players and possibly sell them on. But yeah, lots to think about. Normally at this stage I talk about what's coming up next, but there's not. There's the pre-season friendlies. So far the information I've got is there'll be some at home and some away, so finger on the pulse here, Mike. and I mean although to be fair we didn't have many at home last year.
Mike Dowling
46:20 - 46:57
And finally the Prediction League, I haven't finished the table yet but Pessimistic PC has won because all he needed was Stuart, well Stuart had to get a full house and Charmers get basically no more than one point but he did predict a 1-1 draw so he's definitely won it, I just don't know how much by. But if anyone's interested for next season, please let me know. And we will hopefully be pushing out the link for the podcast player of this season, same format as before, where it's like the World Cup groups, although I popped it in the little WhatsApp group earlier and people are telling me, yeah, it's not working properly.
Mike Dowling
46:57 - 47:28
So we are. We're going to see what happens with that. I'll try and fix it. But after that, we're going to wrap up this episode. As always, we appreciate the attention and feedback. Follow, like, and share on all social medias. Give me the thumbs up on YouTube. And we are going to be back on Sunday with a season review. And there's a few different people who want to contribute. So I'm kind of working out who's coming first, to be honest. As always, thank you to Lucky Star Gin, our sponsors. And a big thank you today to Johnny and Carl.
Mike Dowling
47:29 - 47:34
Thanks to you for listening and I hope you've enjoyed this episode of Sutton Podcasts. Take care and we'll catch up soon. Bye bye.
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